New Houses at Beresford

[CM27]

Apologies for the delay in getting these minutes to you following last week's meeting. Further below is a summary of the main points discussed.

In short, the Horas cannot provide a separate construction road because of the unwillingness of the landowner to make a realistic deal. There is also a real danger from that landowner that if we were to get a temporary road, he make seek housing at the back of Waterlefe and use Beresford as the point of entry/exit.

Anything else you can think of that will help mitigate issues, please let us know. The other thing I was thinking about was that aside from putting all major deliveries on one day and notifying the community when these large-scale delivery days would occur, we could also insist on a peak-time ban on truck movements through the estate i.e. between 7.30 and 9, for instance. Any more suggestions, please send them on and I will present them to Hora.

I would encourage everyone to think about other measures we could introduce and let's meet next week for a final call on this. From my perspective, I'm inclined to vote for removing the appeal and take any measures we can that will alleviate the build etc. My own personal opinion is that the more I talk to all sides, including the local reps and town planners etc., there is a serious risk posed from An Bord Pleanala that they could reject the planning on the basis that there are not enough houses being proposed.

This is what we need to decide on and I would suggest that we meet next Tuesday or Wednesday evening our the proposed lists of asks and take a final vote. If anyone has any questions in the meantime, just mail the residence committee



MINUTES
Aidan Hora spoke

Apologized for not organizing a meeting sooner with current residents

He spoke about what he saw as 5 key issues

Apologized for not organizing a meeting sooner with current residents

He spoke about what he saw were 5 key issues

1) Relationship between Hora and Oakstone –
· He stated that this will be a Hora build and Hora was the builder
· The build is to begin Feb 18 and last approx. 5 years
· They will look to reduce the social housing from 30% to 10%

2) Construction and Pedestrian access

· Pedestrian access will to Beverton will be put in, in the coming weeks (part of the existing approved application for Beresford)
· Explained that the entrance to Beresford was designed to slow traffic down – to help with traffic issue. A section of the bend will be removed- this development work will start w/c 31st October
· To amend entrance further ( i.e. removal of pillars) would have to go through Fingal County Council. Community is to see how the small revisions work.
· In terms of second access to new site from the old Turvey golf club, -The Horas have approached the landowner Derek Keys (however what Keys wants in return to allow the Hora’s access the land is too high, to rent the land is extremely costly and landowner would need to come down 90% on asking price –
· The landowner also wants access points into Beresford and Sewage and electrical points as well, meaning that a private builder in years to come could build additional ( non-hora units)
Hora are also looking at the potential to turn the current site office into additional visitor parking spots but this is dependent on FCC agreement as it could eat into the % green space that Hora has to provide.
3) Density/Apartments in new developments
Current requirements for density levels are 35 per sq hectare, the new development is coming in just shy of 30. Therefore there is a real risk that An Bord Pleanala could insist on putting more houses onto the land, meaning a potential extra 60-80 plus homes.

Stated the apartments were put in the plans to meet density requirements

Repeatedly stated that Hora don’t want to build apartments and promised a commitment to change the apartments to houses, once planning permission is granted.... subject to FCC approval

Stressed that it is far easier to change plans once approved than to have gone to Fingal directly with the desired densities without apartments.
Solution to appease Fingal around densities will be to explain that houses will be three beds+ and can accommodate more people than apartments. Also, that three storey houses (similar to many developments that are going on these days with converted attics) could be another workaround.

4) Finishing works (Playground, speed rams etc)
This will be in the coming week due to change of planning requirements etc and has just been signed off
The large house and cottage will also be completed in the coming months.


5) Compensation
· For Beresford Road windows would be cleaned every month and the facades of the house cleared every 6 months for the duration of the build.

· There would the installation of a Go car – which hora would absorbed the cost for and more cars would be added if the scheme proved to be successful. Subject to community approval. Residents already communicated their disinterest in the plans.

· The Horas are also open to suggestion from residents of how to mitigate construction traffic affect

· Once planning permission has been granted they will look to change apartments to house

· No construction traffic on Saturday is already in situ.


Brendan Kinane also spoke giving details of the background of the lands. He stated that he had been building in Donabate since the late 80’s. In the early 2000 he approached the Horas to take over the construction element of his business, during this exchange it was brought up how the Horas are family builders and that is why he approached them, they build at a slow rate and do not build poor quality homes.

He stated that if the planning permission is rejected that he may be forced to sell the Lands and this could end up in the hands of another developet

It was flagged by both the Horas and Brendan Kinnane that an Bord Pleannala could rule in favour of higher density development.

It was queried could the Horas speed up constructions on the new development however the Horas were against this as it could lead to inferior quality of housing.

Closing
Hora’s and Brendan were thanked for coming to the meeting to explain their position

Meeting to take place in the next two weeks to discuss Hora’s offer

[Mr. Stupid]

Suggestions:

1. Appeal article 25 of the condition of planning which stipulated that Hora was to give around 600K to the council and in return didn't have to provide 2 acres of green space which is supposed to under LAP. If he has to provide 2 acres of green space it would bring the densities down by about 40 - 60 houses and takes the pressure of the road. He is going above LAP suggestions with current proposals.

2. Insist more walkways opened up with Beverton. This would encourage people to walk and use their bikes instead of using the cars. It shouldn't be just one, there's several that could be possible. He could apply specifically for planning to do this.

3. Change the planning permission so that there are more Cul de Sacs with one wider ring road which is 7M wide like Beverton. Again, this differentiates between a safe road for kids and one road which 400 houses can use.

Where he is getting his info ref: densities. In the LAP it says:
http://www.fingalcoco.ie/media/Local%20Objectives.pdf

"Ensure that the layout, design and scale of future development on these lands
shall have regard to its prominent location, as well as the visibility of these lands
from the south. In addition the layout, scale, design and density of development
should respect the transitional nature of the sensitive southern boundary area"

So, think any claims of facts should be double checked.

[Carv]

1) Relationship between Hora and Oakstone –
· They will look to reduce the social housing from 30% to 10%

Who are Oakstone? What is their vested interest in Beresford?
If they reduce the social housing to 10% that would definitely help ease some of the concerns.

3) Density/Apartments in new developments
Repeatedly stated that Hora don’t want to build apartments and promised a commitment to change the apartments to houses, once planning permission is granted.... subject to FCC approval

That's great news they don't want to go down the apartment route. Hopefully once approved they can take that stipulation out and go for houses instead of apartments on secondary approval.

4) Finishing works (Playground, speed rams etc)
This will be in the coming week due to change of planning requirements etc and has just been signed off
The large house and cottage will also be completed in the coming months.

Any idea what the play park will look like?

Brendan Kinane also spoke giving details of the background of the lands. He stated that he had been building in Donabate since the late 80’s. In the early 2000 he approached the Horas to take over the construction element of his business, during this exchange it was brought up how the Horas are family builders and that is why he approached them, they build at a slow rate and do not build poor quality homes.

This is one of the reasons why I chose to go with Beresford. The build quality is outstanding compared to similar new builds.

Thanks for doing up the meeting minutes. I have not yet moved in but I am keen to keep in the loop on what is going on. So appreciate the heads up

[CM27]

Hi

Thanks for the information - can you please email any suggestions & questions to beresford.donabate@gmail.com

@ Carv oakstone is the name of the development company for the Turvey lands , which is owned by Brendan Kinane

[daveyboy]

1) Relationship between Hora and Oakstone –
· He stated that this will be a Hora build and Hora was the builder
· The build is to begin Feb 18 and last approx. 5 years
· They will look to reduce the social housing from 30% to 10%

Cheers for posting, would be interested to see how it all pans out as we are looking to buy in the area. Is the 30% social housing inclusive of affordable housing do you know? 30% social seems a bit on the high side

[Portman]

Was just wondering has anyone in Beresford got their heating system serviced yet and had any recommendations on who to get to do it?

[Northwest]

Thanks for your feedback 're the meeting. Appreciate you taking the time to respond.

[Northwest]

Can anyone let me know who supplies the paint? Is there a good choice?
Thanks

[Batman3]

Can anyone let me know who supplies the paint? Is there a good choice?
Thanks

I think it's Fleetwood paint they use...could be wrong. (Maybe colourtrend).
Either way it's a choice of three colours !!!

[Northwest]

Can anyone let me know who supplies the paint? Is there a good choice?
Thanks

I think it's Fleetwood paint they use...could be wrong. (Maybe colourtrend).
Either way it's a choice of three colours !!!

Thanks for responding!! 3 is very limited!!

[Austy]

If you plan on putting new colours on the walls, go for the brightest option. We went for cotton ball colour and is harder to cover with new paint.

[Austy]

Was just wondering has anyone in Beresford got their heating system serviced yet and had any recommendations on who to get to do it?

Had my heatpump serviced by ArticAir....which reminds me, it is due another service!

[Portman]

Thanks Austy

[bmcgilli]

Thanks for posting the minutes up CM27. Long time reader, first-time poster.
I could be wrong here but it sounds like there are two conflicting points:

1. That Hora have to pay money to the council to reduce the amount of green space in the estate.
2. That Hora are also planning too few units to meet the council's density requirements.

It sounds to me like they're doing what they can to balance the two, to build an estate of detached and semi-detached houses which seems to be a rarity these days.

The consensus on here seems to be that Hora build high-quality estates. With that in mind, I think that the focus should be on working with them to minimise disruption during the build as opposed to risking another builder coming in down the line.

[cbc]

1. That Hora have to pay money to the council to reduce the amount of green space in the estate.
2. That Hora are also planning too few units to meet the council's density requirements.

Yeah i really dont get these two points, i dont understand how if Hora haven't left enough green space and now have to pay a fine that they still haven't met density requirements. Its the "country" people dont want to be living on top of each other. Beresford is a nice development of 3 & 4 bed family homes but in my opinion i still think it is quite high density. I think the proposed apartment building in the next phase is a bit ridiculous and i hope it doesn't get built as i dont think it fits the rest of the development.

Fingal must want everyone living in apartment buildings or those duplex units that were so popular in the boom but reality is these units that were so popular 10yrs ago are now nooses around peoples necks that want to move into a semi-d with driveway & garden but cant afford it. People if they have a choice and are not restricted by price dont want to live in high density units unless they are in city centre locations.

[Archdale]

Anyone see the lorry reverse into the street light outside the estate last night ? Iggy Madden Transport Lorry was coming up Turvey Avenue from the direction of the 24 hr petrol station. He was parked in just passed the entrance and looked lost and in his attempt to turn the lorry around reversed back into the street light and bent it out of shape. Dangerous enough manoeuvre as it was dark and visibility wasn't great. Reported to the council to fix the street light.

[Mr. Stupid]

Decision Order 29: https://imgur.com/a/5qgr6

"A shortfall of 10,731 sq metres". That's two Soccer pitches.

The density thing is in the development plan but so is having a swimming pool and a dart station.
So is no house being further than 500M from a Bus Stop. The houses at the back of Beresford will be almost a 0.75 km from the entrance to Beresford and well over a km to a bus stop. So, does that mean there will a Bus stop inside Beresford? Well in that case, there needs to be a wider road and places for the bus to turn.

That density guideline could be interpreted as a maximum.

There is no way it could be legally justified without every other aspect of the various development plans being implemented.

[Muffin]

Hi,
Any news on the pedestrian entrance from beresford into beverton? thanks

[coffeez]

Hi all,

I was lucky enough to get one of the houses in the woods and now have the kitchen decisions. The house is c1 type. I am having difficult deciding wether to go with a peninsula unit. My concern is that it would leave the area to the side too tight for a table and chairs.? Anyone in c1 or extended c get a penninsula unit or any opinion would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[Carv]

Hi all,

I was lucky enough to get one of the houses in the woods and now have the kitchen decisions. The house is c1 type. I am having difficult deciding wether to go with a peninsula unit. My concern is that it would leave the area to the side too tight for a table and chairs.? Anyone in c1 or extended c get a penninsula unit or any opinion would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Hi Coffeez,

My in laws just moved into their type C house. They opted for a penninsula and there is plenty of room for table and chairs. The kitchen and dining area is huge. The pdf broucher map is deceptive.

If you have any other questions let me know. Our type B is in the process of getting built. Hopefully the roof goes on this week

[Northwest]

Hi Carv

Soon to be a resident too.
Just wondering have you heard anything 're tiling and paints yet? Thanks

[Carv]

Hi Carv

Soon to be a resident too.
Just wondering have you heard anything 're tiling and paints yet? Thanks

Not as of yet. Only just heard from the Kube Kitchens. Went out to pick my Kitchen a couple of days ago. I would say it will be late March/April time before our house is ready so I don't expect to pick tiles or paint until after christmas.

[cbc]

I'm at same stage, i am going with peninsula unit, i was in one of the other C1 types for a look when it was being finished off and the kitchen area looked quite big, i wouldn't be nervous of fitting a large size table and chairs. The only down side i see is two corner presses and cost of the le mans units.
@Carv i'm curious on what your inlaws did for sitting room furniture, the living room in type C1 looks to be on small side so i'm wondering what is going to work the best, a couch and a chair, would two couches make it look too cramped?

Thanks again for all the info i'm finding this very helpful.

[Carv]

@Carv i'm curious on what your inlaws did for sitting room furniture, the living room in type C1 looks to be on small side so i'm wondering what is going to work the best, a couch and a chair, would two couches make it look too cramped?

Right now they have one of those three seaters that are in an L shape and a one seat recliner. The recliner is way too big so they are going to try get a small single seater.

I think a two/three and a small one seat would work.

[cbc]

Thanks Carv, this is great information.