Concern over use of the ET building

[richard dawkins]

I was "warmly" invited to a Christian meeting taking place in the Educate Together school. Obviously everyone has a right to choose what they believe in and all that but I don't think it is right that a school that is supposed to not promote any religion above other religions is being used to do just that.

I appreciate people will say this is only the building being used and it is not the school itself but still come on - tax payers money went to build an Educate Together school not a Church or a bible club.

Now we all know and are friends with kind Church goers, many of whom are liberal and respectful. So please don't read this as an attack. But sometimes a place that is supposed to be secular and neutral should remain so.

[Donabate Hatter]

Maybe some of those tax payers are the ones that want to hold church meetings there?

[Ken]

I think where ET are concerned, if they are to hire their facilities out, they can't discriminate who they hire them to. If a religious organisation wants to hire space, their money is a good as everyone else's. Sorry RD, can't agree with you on this one.

[AlanD]

ET is multi-denominational

[richard dawkins]

Ken I agree if it was the community center. Alan yes ET is multi-demonional but these meetings are not. They are promoting a specific religious view point. They tell you everyone is warmly welcome but the agenda is really to tell you their Christian religious viewpoint is correct and all others (Hindu's, Buddhists, Atheists, Marmalade worshipers) are wrong. There are more appropriate places to be doing that.

[AlanD]

That's the nature of belief I'm afraid: all divergant beliefs are wrong. Multi-denominational means all belief systems are entitled to airtime, not none. I am sure Hindu's, Buddhists, Atheists, Marmalade worshipers would be welcome to rent as well. I might even go along to the latter

[bear]

im sure nobody will be forced to go and if they do they can decide what they think . Im not for or against the persons in question .

[richard dawkins]

That's the nature of belief I'm afraid: all divergant beliefs are wrong. Multi-denominational means all belief systems are entitled to airtime, not none. I am sure Hindu's, Buddhists, Atheists, Marmalade worshipers would be welcome to rent as well. I might even go along to the latter

Absolutely. So that's why we have a concept of secularism. One belief is not promoted above others and if they are there is equal airtime.

Hey - These people are obviously allowed meet, discuss and even promote their agenda but I just think they could have picked a more appropriate place (community center, parish hall) and ET should stick to their ethos.

[acdublin]

As far as I know, the ET here differentiates between what happens in the school during school hours and what happens outside of them. I think they see the school building as having a community facility purpose outside of school hours. That's a great benefit to the community particularly given the limited options available.

[richard dawkins]

They obviously do. But these meetings completely fly in the face of the Educate Together ethos. Not everyone agrees on religion and therefore it is nice if all sides (christians, muslims, buddhists, atheists, marmalade worshipers) respect that some areas / places / times should not be used for one group to promote their own agenda. There are plenty of other places that could be used: two Christian Churches, a parish hall, two Christian schools and even none of these existed there is a community center.

Please try to respect the ET ethos.

[Donabate Hatter]

I'm sorry RD you keep going on about the ET ethos, as far as I'm concerned that relates to the teaching in the school, IMHO it has nothing to do with what the building is used for out of school hours. You don't want to go there for religious meetings, that's fine don't go, but its freedom of choice for those that want to go as well as for those that don't!!

[John Spark]

But these meetings completely fly in the face of the Educate Together ethos.

Not at all. If the ET ethos is multi-denominational then surely they feel that everyone (Chritsians, Hindu's, Buddhists, Atheists, Marmalade worshipers) should be free to follow their own beliefs - and that includes the Christians that rent out the building.

All others (Hindu's, Buddhists, Atheists, Marmalade worshipers) as was said above would also be free to book the building to promote their beliefs as well.

The ET ethos isn't non-denominational - it's multi-denominational.

[richard dawkins]

ET teaches what a Christian believes but they don't teach that believe is correct and all others wrong. The Christians who wish to use this building passionately believe that they are correct and everyone else is wrong. Not just wrong but needs to be "saved".

IF you went to super macs every day for a few months. You'd have a big *ss.
What would you do to get rid of it?

[Vlad the Impaler]

Dicky, you're such a sh#t stirrer.

[richard dawkins]

Finding it hard to see your shoes after some Mighty Macs Vlad?

[JohnPaulTheTenth]

I'm an atheist. My kids are unbpatised and will stay that way. They are enrolled in the ET school and no other, due to the ethos of it.

I wouldn't care who rents a meeting room of an evening.

[mammy2]

I for one find the fact that the ET ethos is so called multi-denominational and then sometimes non- denominational, how can you take money from Christians and allow Christians walk on your sacred ground. I think ET makes it up to suit themselves. Who cares about together when there are Euros to be made.

[Donabate Hatter]

Mammy2

I don't understand, where is this 'sacred ground' you talk about?

DH

[pat mustard]

am sure we all end up taking donations / tax receipts/ assistance from all denominations and non-denominations alike.

[Harry Byrne]

The ET school is taking some ridiculous stick here. The EJB rantings of Richard Dawkins and Mammy's resentful comments are completely over the top.

They rented out a room. Get over it.

[Donabate Hatter]

Well said Harry, but I should point out that it was Mammy2 not Mammy that made that strange posting!!

[mammy2]

I see the ET herd mentality is out in force. There is an obvious contradiction here in ET practises. I will say no more because I see the herd coming.
Now we will all say together Et is wonderful I love their ethos they can do no wrong.

[JohnPaulTheTenth]

Heh

[bear]

i would hate to see the reaction if they went really mad and rented the place out for something like a "disco ".

[Donabate Hatter]

Mammy2, as you are now back on this thread perhaps you would like to answer my question as to where is this 'sacred ground' you talk of? Also, given your stance on this matter I find that a very strange phrase for you to use, as to call it 'sacred ground' clearly gives it a religious connection, which is the very thing you are arguing against!!!!!