Property Tax - it's here!

[Mr. Stupid]

So finally the valuations are out!

Link here.

They have classified areas. We have been given a classification of 5.
Most of Swords is a 4. Lusk is a 4. Half of Malahide is 6 the other half 7. Skerries got a 6.
Howth got a 9. Dublin Pembroke East got a 14. A lot of Cavan is rated at 1.

So we beat Swords and Lusk but guess will be paying for it.

But here's where it gets really confusing those classifications were for a semi detached house after 2000. If you go for a detached house built before 2000, we go to classification 6. Other regions change classification.

[Ken]

The valuations are lower than I thought. Would you get a detached house in Donabate for €300-350k?

[Mr. Stupid]

There are not many detached houses in the bate. But I see your point. But I think the valuation of 250 - 300 is spot on for a semi. The big thing is there's a big difference between a 3 bed and 4 bed and even a 5 bed semi. But it lumps them all into just semi's. That benefits people living in bigger houses big time.

But other than that it's reasonably fairly done. IF you are living in an area with a higher average price you are living in a better area and should pay more tax.

[Vlad the Impaler]

Was just speaking with guys from various parts of Dublin in work and the general concensus is that the valuations are well under market rates.

Apparently this is to minimise disputes and challenges.

[diggerbarnes]

So how does that work out in terms of the actual charge, or has that not been decided yet?

[diggerbarnes]

And why were people stessing out about extensions and the like when the charge applied is obviously so broad and genreal?
Nothing but a Dublin tax if you ask me. Makes no difference if you live in a 1 bed apartment alone or 5 bed detached witha family of 6. That's just plain wrong.

[Mr. Stupid]

Nothing but a Dublin tax if you ask me. Makes no difference if you live in a 1 bed apartment alone or 5 bed detached witha family of 6. That's just plain wrong.

No No. There is a difference between apartments (which are lowest in values) and detached (which are the highest). The lack of differentiation is the number of bedrooms.

[diggerbarnes]

Sorry you'll have to spell that out for me. So a 1 bedroom apartment in Donabate by their reckoning is 250,000, and the largest home is 300,000?

[diggerbarnes]

oh right
So seeing as most peeple will be in semi-ds, they are looking at 400 euro fi they value at the low end (250,000)

[Mr. Stupid]

Well unless their Semi D was built before 2000 in which case it is the band 200K <--> 250K. If it is after 2000 it is in the bank 250<-->300K.

Maybe someone who is not a blow in can tell us when the various estates in Donabate were built?

[bear]

Nothing but a Dublin tax if you ask me. Makes no difference if you live in a 1 bed apartment alone or 5 bed detached witha family of 6. That's just plain wrong.

No No. There is a difference between apartments (which are lowest in values) and detached (which are the highest). The lack of differentiation is the number of bedrooms.

In fairness, overall given the difficulty of the task, an excellent job by FG.

an excellent job by fg ? How do you work that out ?

[estuarine]

For me, the point is that the whole issue of the property tax has very quickly changed from will or won't pay to a ridiculous situation where a body charged with collecting taxes is issuing estimated valuations and bills to taxpayers, giving us the right to challenge the valuations whilst at the same time threatening us with the big stick of fines if we dare undervalue.

Like most people, I'm a PAYE taxpayer. I pay the tax I owe and I'm actually pretty proud to be a compliant citizen who pays my way. Revenue to me has always been an impartial arm of the State, simply collecting the taxes decided by the Oireachtas. Now that has changed. They are presenting citizens with a ridiculously general estimate and challenging us to a totally unequal and unfair duel if we want to challenge them. People should always be clear where they stand when dealing with Revenue.

Nobody should feel intimidated about challenging Revenue's estimate where they have good grounds for doing so. Such grounds would be evidence from the national property price register of similar properties to their own in the same area selling for less than Revenue's estimate. People should be assured that where they provide such evidence to Revenue, their valuation will not be challenged. I certainly intend raising this with our local TDs.

[Mr. Stupid]

For me, the point is that the whole issue of the property tax has very quickly changed from will or won't pay to a ridiculous situation where a body charged with collecting taxes is issuing estimated valuations and bills to taxpayers, giving us the right to challenge the valuations whilst at the same time threatening us with the big stick of fines if we dare undervalue.

Like most people, I'm a PAYE taxpayer. I pay the tax I owe and I'm actually pretty proud to be a compliant citizen who pays my way. Revenue to me has always been an impartial arm of the State, simply collecting the taxes decided by the Oireachtas. Now that has changed. They are presenting citizens with a ridiculously general estimate and challenging us to a totally unequal and unfair duel if we want to challenge them. People should always be clear where they stand when dealing with Revenue.

Nobody should feel intimidated about challenging Revenue's estimate where they have good grounds for doing so. Such grounds would be evidence from the national property price register of similar properties to their own in the same area selling for less than Revenue's estimate. People should be assured that where they provide such evidence to Revenue, their valuation will not be challenged. I certainly intend raising this with our local TDs.

Is your point that Revenue should not be providing these estimations?
The alternative is that new body is set up to do that. I don't see the advantage of that. It makes more sense Revenue just do it and I think people are going to find it hard to prove the revenue have over estimated as it looks like revenue estimations if anything are slightly under.

[estuarine]

Basically, whatever the general consensus (and obviously general consensus never did any harm in the Irish economy!), I believe that my property is overvalued by Revenue. I am basing that on recent sale prices for other similar properties in the area.

My argument is that Revenue should give an assurance that where a lower valuation is backed up by specific evidence, they will accept that. I find it unacceptable that I am being told to accept their valuation - which is wrong - or put forward my own - which I sincerely believe to be right - but with the threat of a large fine hanging over me for doing so.

They need to put in place clear criteria for challenging their valuation that ordinary taxpayers can take comfort in. Otherwise, they are literally demanding money with menaces.

[Mr. Stupid]

Good point. Several Donabate properties come out lower on 'The Daft valuator'.

[midsomermurderer]

So I've got a mid-terrace in Beverton and revenue reckons I'm in the 250K-300K bracket.

In other words, according to revenue my house has pretty much emerged unscathed by the worst property crash since 1929.

Now, there are brand new semi-detached houses in the new part of Beverton for ~ €210K-240K.

As a result, I'm inclined to put my home in the €150K-200K bracket

Any thoughts?

[Ken]

If you can show what similar houses are selling for in the area then you have a good case to go in with a lower figure. At the end of the day they give an estimated value and it's up to you to assess the value of your own house whether that be higher or lower.

[Mr. Stupid]

So I've got a mid-terrace in Beverton and revenue reckons I'm in the 250K-300K bracket.

In other words, according to revenue my house has pretty much emerged unscathed by the worst property crash since 1929.

Now, there are brand new semi-detached houses in the new part of Beverton for ~ €210K-240K.

As a result, I'm inclined to put my home in the €150K-200K bracket

Any thoughts?

Mid,
Where are you getting 210-240 from? Are you sure you have included VAT (13.5%) stamp duty isn't the onlytax you pay and prices on the property price register don't include vat (unless of course the solicitor was stupid enough to include vat in the registered price in which case the buyer paid more stamp duty). What year did you buy in?