Donabate Community College - cop on!!

[Bumblebee]

So, we just became aware that the lad who had his head shaved here on Monday for Shave or Dye, P has been suspended from school until his hair grows back...Really ! ? In these modern times that we live in, the Principal of Donabate Community College has decided that by P , a lad who is always extremely proud of his hair and has the latest hairstyle, who sacrificed a lot in order to raise much needed money for a fantastic, Nationwide charity that raises money and awareness for this generation's biggest killer, is not welcome on the school premises until his hair grows back. Well now that's intelligent reasoning of the highest order. Because he has his head shaved , is he unable to learn ? Because he has his head shaved , is he unable to contribute ? A lad who I'm sure , doesn't want his head shaved , but did so to contribute to a National fundraising event , is being denied his education , why, because he's a distraction ? That he might inspire some of his peers to stand up and help a charity or cause that needs awareness ? I hope this post raises a small bit of awareness that might cause people to voice their disappointment at the school and the Principal, at the frankly ridiculous decision they've made. Cancer touches EVERYBODY in one way or another, to punish people for their efforts to support such causes is disgusting.

(from Wayne at Razors Edge)

[Somewhere Else]

Shame on the school! I thought those days of mindless stupidity by our educators were long gone. If this were my child, I would be very proud of him and would fight this absurdity tooth and nail! Cop on Community College and put the young lad up as an example of caring in the community.

[Mr. Stupid]

Well I don't know all the facts but if what you are saying is correct I think you'll find it very hard to find anyone who disagrees with you. Could he go to school and wear a whig and say his hair grew back to show the stupidity of all this?

[fred]

I don't know both sides of this story, so I would certainly not comment on it, although I do think that people's names should not be used on this site.

[estuarine]

Firstly, it is very wrong to name the young person here. Suspension from school is a serious matter and it is very possible that the parents will pursue avenues of appeal. As a general rule, children should never be identified by name in a negative context and without their parents' consent.

To try to address the issue raised in general terms - every school has a uniform policy which often extends to hair. Many employers do too. Shave or Dye is a great idea, but it does not override the policies people sign up to in schools and workplaces. School uniform serves two general purposes. Firstly it is an essential aspect of general school discipline and secondly it prepares young people for a world in which their individual rights and freedoms are not absolute but rather must co-exist alongside the demands of others. Try turning up on a construction site and refusing to wear a helmet or high-vis clothing!

This young man should have approached the school authorities in a respectful manner. The chances are that, if there was sufficient interest, the school might have organised a one-day event where students could have got their hair dyed and raised money collectively. I've no connection with Donabate Community College but it seems to have a reputation as a progressive and caring place. However, every school needs rules and discipline and people who want to individually flout the policies in place have to be confronted or the whole system will be undermined. I don't like the prospect of anyone being suspended for so long and to be frank I don't really believe that. There are fairly strict rules regarding the length of a suspension that may be enforced.

[Donabate Hatter]

'Donabate Community College but it seems to have a reputation as a progressive and caring place'

Not according to some previous posts its not, in fact this suspension would seem like their typical reaction!!!!!!

[John Spark]

Did the chap run it by the school before doing his charity activity? Or did he just do it to get one up on the school? As was said above all schools / workplaces / even some public buildings etc have dress codes and if you know you're going to be breaching that code then the respectful thing to do is to run it by the relevant people first, or run the risk of being denied entry. Presumably that permission wasn't sought in this case?

Also is there any previous history of disciplinary issues with this particular person? If so this might just be the straw that broke the camel's back.

It seems very unfair to tarnish the name of the school without giving all the details of the particular case.

[Mr. Stupid]

Estuarine, the best Education system in the world in Finland do not wear uniforms. And the reason why your wear a helmet on a construction site is for safety not to enforce discipline.

Unfortunately, like the wandering child thread we don't have all the facts here.

[diggerbarnes]

I suppose it all hangs on whether bumblebee's account is 100% accurate. If it is, then shame on the school.
My eldest boy goes to the Educate together NS. They launched the shave or die campaign live on radio with Ian Dempsey. It was a wonderful event and I actually felt proud of the school and very glad that he was going there. I love that some of teachers have been going round with pink hair, skin heads and mohicans. True role models for the kids. Their philosophy is such a breath of fresh air and a departure from the outdated Victorian model and philosophy of education that we would be most familiar with.

estuarine, I'm sorry but I think many of your points are nonsense. I love that kids in the ETNS dont have to wear uniforms and can call their teachers by their christian names. It is plain silly to believe that they need to be drilled and trained like industrial machines into conformity, otherwise they will disintegrate to ash on day one of their first real job when they have to put on a uniform or dress smart if the role requires it.

It disturbs and saddens me a bit to think that in a few years my son will have to move from one philosophy to the other for his secondary education.

Like I say, if bumblebee's account is all there is to this story, then shame on the school for their blinkered inability to get their priorities straight.

[diggerbarnes]

btw - I cant stand Ray Darcy or Joe Duffy (professionally of course ), but if this is true, I'd love to hear the parents ring in about it. I'm sure Ray would just love this.

[Mr. Stupid]

I suppose it all hangs on whether bumblebee's account is 100% accurate. If it is, then shame on the school.
My eldest boy goes to the Educate together NS. They launched the shave or die campaign live on radio with Ian Dempsey. It was a wonderful event and I actually felt proud of the school and very glad that he was going there. I love that some of teachers have been going round with pink hair, skin heads and mohicans. True role models for the kids. Their philosophy is such a breath of fresh air and a departure from the outdated Victorian model and philosophy of education that we would be most familiar with.

estuarine, I'm sorry but I think many of your points are nonsense. I love that kids in the ETNS dont have to wear uniforms and can call their teachers by their christian names. It is plain silly to believe that they need to be drilled and trained like industrial machines into conformity, otherwise they will disintegrate to ash on day one of their first real job when they have to put on a uniform or dress smart if the role requires it.

It disturbs and saddens me a bit to think that in a few years my son will have to move from one philosophy to the other for his secondary education.

Like I say, if bumblebee's account is all there is to this story, then shame on the school for their blinkered inability to get their priorities straight.

They could make a version of "The Boy in Striped Pajamas" as the schools are right beside each other. Except this time when guy who wears the uniform gets his head shaved he is expelled.

(Sorry - I know it's a bad joke but it is Friday).

[John Spark]

It is plain silly to believe that they need to be drilled and trained like industrial machines into conformity, otherwise they will disintegrate to ash on day one of their first real job when they have to put on a uniform or dress smart if the role requires it.

I'm sure they won't "disintegrate to ash on day one of their first real job when they have to put on a uniform or dress smart if the role requires it" - no more than they do when they put on a uniform for school or are asked to abide by the rules of the school.

My kids have worn uniforms in primary and secondary school, and they were never "trained like industrial machines into conformity". So far thankfully they have had quite a pleasant and enjoyable experience of school and the education system.

But I would expect them to have the decency or the cop-on to at least mention it to the school if they were thinking of having their hair dyed or shaved for charity.

[blowin1]

btw - I cant stand Ray Darcy or Joe Duffy (professionally of course ), but if this is true, I'd love to hear the parents ring in about it. I'm sure Ray would just love this.

As people have said, there are always two sides to a story, however, if it is true and there are no other reasons for this child being suspended, then I do think it is a sad day and I agree with the above, a phonecall to Ray or Joe Duffy (even better) would be a good idea !

[diggerbarnes]

But I would expect them to have the decency or the cop-on to at least mention it to the school if they were thinking of having their hair dyed or shaved for charity.

Really? Why?

[John Spark]

But I would expect them to have the decency or the cop-on to at least mention it to the school if they were thinking of having their hair dyed or shaved for charity.

Really? Why?

Firstly out of common decency.

Secondly because they would know that by going into school with their hair dyed or their head shaved, that they are breaking a rule of the school that every student is aware of. If they knew they were going to break a rule in our house, like being in by the agreed time, then I'd expect them to let myself or my wife know in advance - and I don't see how the situation in the school is any different.

[diggerbarnes]

I simply fail to see how hair equates to decency, unless you have a swear word shaved into to it, or have it gelled up into a rude shape.
It's a stupid rule from a bygone age and certainly not worth suspending a kid over, especially if they did it for a worthy cause.
Anyway, good luck to him, hope he raises lots of cash.

[Aster]

It is very clearly outlined in the school code of conduct that shaved and unnaturally coloured hairstyles are deemed distracting and are forbidden. All students and parents are required to sign the code. So, I'm fairly certain that this particular head was shaved in full awareness of what the consequence would be.

Personally, I think these rules are outdated and don't reflect the current "real world". I believe that this generation of secondary students is far too sophisticated to be distracted by hairstyles, piercings and the like. And I object wholeheartedly to a uniform where girls are required to wear skirts and that can only be purchased from one supplier.

Having said all that, I think we were all so grateful to get a secondary school for the community that we agreed to whatever rules were imposed. So far, the "if you don't like it, find another school" attitude seems to have prevailed.

I guess the question is whether the rules of the school reflect the ethos of our community. And if not, will we do anything about it other than discuss it on an anonymous forum?

[diggerbarnes]

That's a well balanced post.

[John Spark]

I simply fail to see how hair equates to decency, unless you have a swear word shaved into to it, or have it gelled up into a rude shape.
It's a stupid rule from a bygone age and certainly not worth suspending a kid over, especially if they did it for a worthy cause.
Anyway, good luck to him, hope he raises lots of cash.

I also fail to see how hair relates to decency, and therefore would never suggest that it did.

Informing the relevant personnel, or seeking permission from the relevant personnel, before carrying out an action that you know to be in breach of a rule or code that you had agreed to, however does relate to decency. This particular example is about hair but it could just as easily be about piercings or not wearing the school uniform, or not doing your homework etc.

As was said above It is almost definitely the case that this person shaved his head in the full knowledge of the consequences.

[bear]

i can remember when having long hair got you sent home from school and i wonder . If he .arrived with coloured hair instead of shaved would it have been the same outcome ?. Maybe the principal is trying to make a name for themselves if not too late

[Vlad the Impaler]

I like the idea of total conformity and discipline in a school. You can let your hair down when you step outside.. except of course this chap can't given the hairdo.

However there's always two sides to every story. If it was for a charity event, I doubt he would have got suspended without someother story going on. I'd like more info from someone connected to the school.

And remove his name please moderator.

[estuarine]

Ok, since there have actually been some very balanced contributions here, I think I need to acknowledge that my argument regarding discipline might have cast me in a somewhat hardline light:)

I completely agree that Educate Together has brought a most welcome new approach to the running of schools and clearly it is possible to have good discipline in a school without a uniform!

However, there are one or two points on this that should be made. Parents who make a conscious choice regarding the school they send their child to are more likely to care about education issues in general. Educate Together, Gaelscoileanna, fee-paying schools: they are all decisions parents consciously make and, to be blunt about it, you tend not to encounter the same amount of indiscipline within their walls as you might elsewhere. If everyone buys into the Educate Together philosophy, it'll work just fine. I'm pretty sure they deal effectively with those who flout their policies such as they are too.

Donabate Community College is not quite the same. As with the vast majority of schools it has a uniform. And having a uniform means having a consistent policy for all. Ironically, I'm aware of some schools where Shave or Dye has become an issue but since their policies don't explicitly deal with hair, they can do nothing. Fairness and consistency is what it's all about. There are positives to school uniforms not just negatives. Young people can be very appearance conscious and the uniform does eliminate a significant source of peer pressure.

I think there can be a tendency for people to view issues such as this through the prism of old grievances from their own schooldays etc... whereas in fact the pupil-teacher relationship these days is usually a very compassionate one but ultimately we all talking about children here - not adults - and they need structures, boundaries and ultimately sanctions as they continue their journey towards responsible adulthood.