Houses Ballymastone Disaster

Mr. Stupid
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That's a minor change, considering many of the "private" houses will end up on the hap scheme.
SummerTon
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Mr. Stupid wrote:That's a minor change, considering many of the "private" houses will end up on the hap scheme.
Why would that happen?
Mr. Stupid
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Most HAP scheme properties tend to be in high density places where there already is a large amount of social / affordable.
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Vlad the Impaler
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Social housing should be 10% maximum. That would cover those completely unable to generate income - i.e. work. Many people who are given things for free don't respect it. You get social issues. Take a walk around Darndale of an evening and let me know how it goes.

Affordable housing is fine for me. There are plenty of young teachers and office workers on a wage less that 40k. They just can't get a mortgage for the types of prices houses are selling for in this area and beyond.
Lavidolas
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https://www-irishtimes-com.cdn.ampproje ... 7?mode=amp

Glenveagh selected by Fingal County Council to deliver 1,200 new homes
Donabate mixed scheme to include houses priced between €250k and €270k

The scheme will comprise a mix of 60 per cent private housing, which will be offered for sale at prevailing market rates; 20 per cent social housing, and 20 per cent private discounted housing. In the case of the latter category, the Dublin-listed housebuilder said it expects two- and three-bedroom houses to command prices of €250,000 and €270,000 respectively.
Mr. Stupid
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Unless those private houses are high spec which they won't be they will be bought largely by investors who will rent most them back to the council under the hap scheme - don't be fool.

No issue with social housing or integrated housing. But, Ballymun has an arts centre, Garda station, swimming pool, close access to a large employer for people to get jobs, close access to a University and 15 minutes from town, a re-generation plan meaning they plant more trees rather than cut them down.

Donabate has a few bookies.
albert
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Mr. Stupid wrote: 30 Mar 2021, 16:22 Unless those private houses are high spec which they won't be they will be bought largely by investors who will rent most them back to the council under the hap scheme - don't be fool.

Not sure about that. property in around the 250k mark would suit a lot of peoples budget.

The amount of negativity Semple Woods got on here was shocking, but personally I think it's a damn nice development.
Mr. Stupid
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I think the 250K are affordable. The private, guessing will be 350K and up. Investor buys and rents for 2K a month. 24K a year. Sell it to someone else after 4 years after clocking in 100K. Not saying people shouldn't be allowed to this. Just when it happens en masse, it's very hard for there to be any sense of community.

Higher spec houses, tend to take longer to sell and people look at them more longer term so you get less turnover. They are harder to rent so investors tend to avoid them.

So every development should have more of a mix.
Lavidolas
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Fingal council moves to begin development of 1,200 homes in north Dublin -

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politic ... 2?mode=amp
Mr. Stupid
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Can't see it taking off
AindriuB
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Fingal County Council voted to approve it. Probably good news that it'll happen now under this Government with only 20% social housing, than when Sinn Féin eventually get into power and revisit the scheme with 100% social housing. Glenveagh have vowed that the portion designated for private sale will not be sold to funds, which is welcome news too. Hopefully the influx of people will bring a with it a bit more attention for new business and further public investment in infrastructure on the Peninsula.
Last edited by AindriuB on 26 May 2021, 22:32, edited 1 time in total.
pat mustard
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i suppose, considering the new "new" road, and we knew this was coming (been here 17 years) . lets hope some supermarkets, restaurants, take aways ,services and schooling come in also.


Wont even start about the Dart extension or the mythical Metro , cop shop, bank or a swimming pool.

So regular direct buses to city should be a short term effective solution surely?.

Having been on the train that nearly fell into the estuary years ago , despite the bus temp solution , my panic, the bus was great tbh. reduced travel time etc.

our Covid hell hopefully punched in the face over the next few months.

Slainte to all DonaBatePortranners. New and old.
Beenthere
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AindriuB wrote: 26 May 2021, 17:01 Fingal County Council voted to approve it. Probably good news that it'll happen now under this Government with only 20% social housing, than when Sinn Féin get eventually get into power and revisit the scheme with 100% social housing. Glenveagh have vowed that the portion designated for private sale will not be sold to funds, which is welcome news too. Hopefully the influx of people will bring a with it a bit more attention for new business and further public investment in infrastructure on the Peninsula.
+1 to this. Think Donabate has dodged a future bullet on these points. If it was signed a bit earlier there would have been vulture funds so hopefully the timing has worked out well.
Mr. Stupid
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AindriuB wrote: 26 May 2021, 17:01 Fingal County Council voted to approve it. Probably good news that it'll happen now under this Government with only 20% social housing, than when Sinn Féin eventually get into power and revisit the scheme with 100% social housing. Glenveagh have vowed that the portion designated for private sale will not be sold to funds, which is welcome news too. Hopefully the influx of people will bring a with it a bit more attention for new business and further public investment in infrastructure on the Peninsula.
I can't see this working. People won't want to 450K for a gaf when they know 20% of the neighbours get it for nothing and 20% for half the price (sorry but that's reality). It will mean the most of the private houses will be sold on the housing agency who will privately buy them and use them to house more social housing (which they are legally entitled to do anyway) or they will be sold to private landlords who lease them back to the council for this price.

This means, by sheer size of this, the estate could become very kippy like many other parts of Dublin. Only worse, because if there's a lot of unemployed people there, where's the local jobs to help them get back up.

In terms of balance big towns Bray, Naas, etc you need to ensure there is broad demographic of rich and poor to make them work and the town has enough local business otherwise we are talking potential huge social problems.

The housing crisis isn't a Fingal issue; it's a national one. Dublin, particularly North Dublin houses way more than its fair share than anywhere else in the country. The entire country should contribute to the solution from Dalkey to Dingle. Otherwise we don't have a sustainable solution.
AindriuB
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Mr. Stupid wrote: 27 May 2021, 13:26 I can't see this working. People won't want to 450K for a gaf when they know 20% of the neighbours get it for nothing and 20% for half the price (sorry but that's reality). It will mean the most of the private houses will be sold on the housing agency who will privately buy them and use them to house more social housing (which they are legally entitled to do anyway) or they will be sold to private landlords who lease them back to the council for this price.

This means, by sheer size of this, the estate could become very kippy like many other parts of Dublin. Only worse, because if there's a lot of unemployed people there, where's the local jobs to help them get back up.

In terms of balance big towns Bray, Naas, etc you need to ensure there is broad demographic of rich and poor to make them work and the town has enough local business otherwise we are talking potential huge social problems.

The housing crisis isn't a Fingal issue; it's a national one. Dublin, particularly North Dublin houses way more than its fair share than anywhere else in the country. The entire country should contribute to the solution from Dalkey to Dingle. Otherwise we don't have a sustainable solution.
First of all Donabate is an amazing place to buy. Secondly, I think you're underestimating just how much demand for housing there is out there. If I hadn't been lucky enough to buy in the scheme of new builds at the Paddocks, I'd probably be looking at picking up one of the private homes in this development.

Then for first time buyers looking at the private houses in this scheme, the alternative for buyers who don't qualify for purchase in the affordable homes scheme are schemes in Kildare, Meath or City West. There's noting else really in the price range near Dublin with the amenities and facilities (parks, transport, proximity to wildlife etc) that Donabte has. Furthermore new developments in competing areas will likely face the same ratios of social/affordable going forward, so if they're concerned about what their neighbour paid for their house, they'll likely still have that concern.

As for the quality, I'd been over looking at Ledwill Park which is another Glenveagh development, and the houses are really nice and modern. They suffer from the things almost every new build suffers from these days, which is lack of a front garden. The Semple Woods development is really nice too, which is obviously another Glenveagh scheme. In fact, of all the new builds I'd looked at, I'd rate the ones built by Glenveagh very highly.

Fingal has one of the few county councils who seem to be at least trying to doing their part when it comes to hitting their objectives on housing. The other councils that make up the Dublin greater area are doing a pretty terrible job, which is why it might seem like Dublin is expanding more into North County Dublin. They could be doing a lot more in Dublin City, but unfortunately DCC is intent on turning Dublin into a tourist attraction rather than a liveable city. SDCC isn't doing so bad, but they have their hands tied just like Fingal, and DLRCC is abysmal too.
Mr. Stupid
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Everywhere I have lived the last 25 years has been mixed. It works really well, if it is done properly and a disaster if not.

Delighted you got sorted with a house. But, this is for Dublin to solve. There are lots of country towns with infrastructure, schools and Garda stations that are providing nothing. Every part of Ireland should be helping out, not just Dublin, not just Fingal, not just Donabate.
Matsugawa
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The Glenveagh houses in Semple Woods flew up, and it’s a nice estate by the looks of it.

I think Mr Stupid is is making a big assumption about the types of people who buy affordable homes - they’re often nurses, guards, young people starting out. My former neighbour is a young solicitor and is renting as they couldn’t get a loan during covid. Looking to buy in Donabate but feeling priced out.

I’d have more issue with a very high proportion of houses being let, as renters don’t really want to invest money or effort in upkeep (though there are exceptions) but hopefully with the change in legislation around vulture funds this won’t happen.
bronorton
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I very much agree with Mr Stupid

I wouldn't buy there with a 20 percent chance my neighbour hasn't paid the same. But we need houses due to our population growth. I am glad at least some of these houses will be available to private buyers, who will hopefully bring increases demand for facilities and infrastructure to the town.

I feel however this is being used as a political football at the moment and hope we don't see some wreck less planning decisions due to this.
Mr. Stupid
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Matsugawa wrote: 27 May 2021, 22:10 I think Mr Stupid is is making a big assumption about the types of people who buy affordable homes - they’re often nurses, guards, young people starting out. My former neighbour is a young solicitor and is renting as they couldn’t get a loan during covid. Looking to buy in Donabate but feeling priced out.
I think people who pay 100% the market rate make their own sacrifices and struggle as well. Not everyone wins the lotto. The reality is they don't want to live on a road with 20% of people who get it for nothing and another 20% who get it for half price. That's just human nature. Yeah, some people genuinely need both affordable or social housing, for very legit reasons (we don't even need the nurse example). I am just saying human nature doesn't work that way. You might be a very nice person, I certainly am but you cannot change humanity.
Summersunshine
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While I think the plan has many pitfalls it should be remembered that 80 percent of the people are paying for there house. If you read into the affordable scheme more all is not as good as it seems as they will have to pay the discount back one way or another so this 20 percent cohort aren't getting the same opportunity to create wealth through there home than someone who pays full whack at the start. I also believe we have been badly let down and essentially thrown to the dogs by representatives outside the community. As soon as the decision was announced a certain fine gael td from malahide first action was to critise sinn fein literally mins after the vote, no consideration to people living here or that will be getting the houses.. Another fine gael senator playing two sides of the electorate by prev speaking out against large development in the area but then again using it to attack sinn fein and then other councillors speaking for this development but you can bet your bottom dollar wouldn't go ahead in there town. We have some great local representatives across all parties and we need to give them as much support as possible the next time we get the chance and remember this at election time
BateBoy
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The snobbery displayed here is pretty discouraging, probably the crowd that still tell people they are from Malahide except they moved out of their parents house in Seabury 25 years ago.

I can’t wait for these houses to be built and a few teeneagers to gather in the village - that should keep them cowering in the homes, demanding a Garda station to protect them from ‘teen gangs’

It’s gas really
Matsugawa
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Personally I hate the attitude that people who live in social/affordable housing are somehow less worthy than people who pay full market price/rent and should be excluded because people who pay full market price/rent "don't like" the idea. Do they prefer the idea of creating entire developments of 100% social housing? This has proven to be a disaster in the past and led to sink estates in the UK and Ireland.

It's the kind of thinking that leads to developments like poor doors (google it), or prevents children of families living in these homes from using communal spaces like green space and terraces.

Not the country I want to live in.
BateBoy
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Mr. Stupid wrote: 28 May 2021, 11:46
Matsugawa wrote: 27 May 2021, 22:10 I think Mr Stupid is is making a big assumption about the types of people who buy affordable homes - they’re often nurses, guards, young people starting out. My former neighbour is a young solicitor and is renting as they couldn’t get a loan during covid. Looking to buy in Donabate but feeling priced out.
I think people who pay 100% the market rate make their own sacrifices and struggle as well. Not everyone wins the lotto. The reality is they don't want to live on a road with 20% of people who get it for nothing and another 20% who get it for half price. That's just human nature. Yeah, some people genuinely need both affordable or social housing, for very legit reasons (we don't even need the nurse example). I am just saying human nature doesn't work that way. You might be a very nice person, I certainly am but you cannot change humanity.
You obviously picked your name very well, you are really staggeringly stupid.

In your world, a guy who works in a bank married to a woman who is an accountant, with a combined income of €150-200k a year make better neighbours than two people working on minimum wage? Minimum wage is a whopping €369 a week each, so they probably have to work maybe 10 hours overtime each, to combine their income and reach the salary of the lady who is an accountant next door. But that lady, the accountant, will be enraged because the other couple got a rebate on their taxes to live in the house next door, which they are never in because they are working 50 hours a week?

I love living in Donabate, but there are a cohort of absolute brainless morons like you who are so busy pretending they are from Malahide and objecting to absolutely everything, that they forget that decency and likability is not connected to your weekly wage, if you knew anyone at all who actually works on minimum wage you would know they are usually the very best neighbours to have - but you wouldn't know that, because you are a penis.

Feck off back to your Mum in Seabury.
Mr. Stupid
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Firstly apologies if I came across the wrong way there.

Everywhere, I have lived for most of my life has been mixed. Some of my better neighbours are refugees or lower income earners in social housing. Some of the worst neighbours were full time professionals. I liked the idea of mixed developments but it is a lot harder than people think to make work. If you look at Sheriff street for example. One reason why that went south was because there was employment promised and it didn't materialise. Similarly, one reason why Darndale turned into a mess was there was no shops, or employment there. There's not enough local employment in Donabate, most people in Donabate who are lucky enough to have a job, hop on the train or the M50, so that's not good.
RPB81
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In terms of what could have been this isn't the worst solution.

Didn't SF / PBP / DL want 1200 houses put up but with no amenities e.g. sports putches/ running track, skateboard ring or park? What was the makeup of said 1200 houses between private / affordable etc? What would have been said on the doorsteps to people who moved into this plan then regarding the lack of amenities?

In terms of neighbours, if you have some that are decent, take pride in their home and have decent values then you're going a long way. I think Mr Stupid was outlining that some assume people only have these values if above a certain salary or in certain professions.
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