Houses Ballymastone Disaster

dearg11
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Just a couple of facts people might want to raise with their local Representatives with regards to the newly proposed development by Fingal County Council

The average occupancy rate per household in Fingal according to the 2011 census was 2.9 people,

bearing in mind a proposed development of 1000 houses , this means a population increase of approx 3000 people with no suitable infrastructure, transport , Garda presence etc

approx 50% of this development will be social housing not seen on this scale since the 1970's and early 1980's

The other 50% will invariably be of the more affordable/budget private housing which will be very attractive to landlords and investment schemes, this could very easily mean the vast majority of all houses in this "estate" will in effect end up social housing

Whilst recognising there is a a major need for housing across the County, this development is completely unsustainable and a disaster waiting to happen.

Remember the population of Darndale is approx 7500 and this development is approximately going to have 40% of Darndale population alone , not having a go at the people of Darndale as I have many friends in the Darndale/Coolock area but they themselves are the first ones to recognize the problems of poor development,
remember this is not taking into consideration all the other dubious plans that also exist for the peninsula , we are sleepwalking into some serious social problems if this goes ahead as planned

Please canvas , threaten to withdraw votes if you have to with our local councillrs/ TD's,

This is ours and our children's future
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Vlad the Impaler
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50% social housing? Where can I read about that?

I thought the LAP designated 20% to social housing.
Hammy007
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I'm guessing it came from here:

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/fin ... 32057.html

20% affordable housing, and 30% social housing.
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Vlad the Impaler
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Wow. Not good is an understatement.
Mr. Stupid
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Estates are supposed to be max 10% social housing according to LAP.
Last edited by Mr. Stupid on 23 Oct 2017, 10:17, edited 1 time in total.
Mr. Stupid
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Sometimes the council will do a full social housing estate, but they are generally very small. This one in Lusk is 27 houses: https://www.independent.ie/regionals/fi ... 13097.html

Kelly is also saying: "1,000 social housing units across 22 local authorities" - meaning 50 houses per local authority. This is 500 in one estate, not even one local authority. As someone said, it's a Dona-darndale.
Bonanza
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Hi,

May I ask where you got this information? I found this pretty alarming after reading your post and tried to find the information online. According to the Donabate development plan only 10% can make up social housing:

6.3 Social & Affordable Housing
Based on the target number of residential units within the LAP lands, not more than 10% of the target number of units shall comprise Social housing. The Social/Affordable housing shall be delivered jointly by Fingal County Council, private developers and the voluntary housing sector. In order to promote and facilitate integration it is an objective of the Council to ensure that social and affordable housing is spread throughout the Plan lands i.e. Corballis, Ballymastone, Rahillion & Turvey.
The Council to seek to engage in land swaps and/or sale of some of the Council owned land at Ballymastone so as to ensure a wide choice in terms of housing tenure at this location.

http://www.fingal.ie/planning-and-build ... abate-lap/

I'm not trying to call you out but would be eager to know where you got this info?

Thanks.
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Vlad the Impaler
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I agree with the above regarding the LAP and the concept of 10% social housing.

The question is whether the LAP can be ignored by the council. Is it in any way legally binding would be something I'd like to understand, and whether it is indeed a stick we can use to beat any silly proposal.
Quello Serio
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Vlad the Impaler wrote:...the concept of 10% social housing.The question is whether the LAP can be ignored by the council. Is it in any way legally binding...
Summary: (https://www.housingagency.ie/Housing-In ... -developer)
Compliance Options include:
Section 96(3)(a) Planning and Development Act 2000 - 2016
*Transfer of land – the default option (for the developer) as underlined by section 96 (3)(g)
Section 96(3)(b) Planning and Development Act 2000 - 2016
*Building and transfer of houses
*Transfer of houses on land off-site
*Grant of a lease of houses on or off-site
*A combination of transfer of land under s.96(3)(a) and options under s.96(3)(b)
*A combination of 2 or more of the options under s.96(3)(b).

Full Detail:
http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default ... 4%2Cen.pdf

I would read this as indicating it is a requirement. However, "The transfer of land is the default requirement set out in the Act.The decision on whether sites or houses are to be transferred to the planning authority in lieu of land is a matter for negotiation between the planning authority and the developer" there is nothing to say that the 10% has to be included in any given development, or in any given locality.

Later edit:

I can't find any official documentation, but found this in the Irish Times (Oct 2016), which indicates that the above has changed:

"Part V obligations under the Urban Regeneration and Housing Act have reduced the requirement that developers must set aside 20 per cent of all dwellings for social and affordable housing to 10 per cent. Builders, too, can no longer offer cash or sites elsewhere to local authorities in lieu of this obligation, so social housing in every new development of 10 or more dwellings is guaranteed.
But developers do not have to sell part V property to the local authority and can offer long-term leasing on the homes instead. This has drawn fire from those on the left who claim it allows developers to make “vast profits out of leasing social housing to councils” instead of transferring those houses into council ownership. However, the Construction Industry Federation maintains that part V obligations impose an “inequitable” obligation on new house buyers to contribute to social housing.
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Vlad the Impaler
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I scanned that document.

It appears to give guidelines on minimum social housing requirements, rather than a ceiling.

I guess the question I’m asking is whether the 10% asked for the in LAP can be set as a ceiling, or can they revise upwards to the 50% we are worried about.

In a nutshell, can the council ignore the LAP recommendations or not.
dearg11
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Unfortunately, it would appear Donabate has become a dumping ground for all kinds of dubious development, I know there are a lot of good local people that have fought these activities on a number of fronts for many years, however I don't think the few "local" Representatives we have are enough to fight on our behalf . I don't know whether it is apathy or just people not thinking of the long term consequences but regardless of political affiliations we need to be more like the people of Kerry, ie the Healy Rae type voters and start voting for locals at both Concil and National level, we are far too fond of voting for people who don't live here and don't have to suffer the consequences of horrendous decisions. Again this is not advocating any party in particular, but rather let's be honest and for want of a better description "be selfish" , because at the end of the day we're the ones having to live here not politicians from neighbouring towns.
I urge all of us not to take this lying down because when all these terrible developments are built we're the ones going to he left picking up the pieces
raja_s
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I was just thinking about paying advance to a house in Donabate. Do you guys reckon, If I should reconsider this.
Carv
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raja_s wrote:I was just thinking about paying advance to a house in Donabate. Do you guys reckon, If I should reconsider this.
I wouldn't let it put you off. Donabate is a great village with a strong community. My wife and I are purchasing our first home in Donabate (Beresford) and we can't wait to move back to Donabate.
Quello Serio
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raja_s wrote:I was just thinking about paying advance to a house in Donabate. Do you guys reckon, If I should reconsider this.
Take the discussions here as an indication that people care about the locality, and are keeping themselves up to date on local planning. Be aware that a 'relief road' will be built in the coming year which will allow development on a lot of currently inaccessible land, so Donabate is likely to grow significantly quite soon. It'll be less rural, but will always be near the sea, near Newbridge and on a good rail link to Dublin, so don't be put off too easily.

I recommend not paying too much attention to anonymous people on the Internet, including me.
Mr. Stupid
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raja_s wrote:I was just thinking about paying advance to a house in Donabate. Do you guys reckon, If I should reconsider this.
It will more than likely go the same way as Balbriggan with a disproportionate amount of social housing and low budget housing. However, Balbriggan has way more facilities and a better town centre, wider range of sports, schools etc and probably better value at this stage:
http://www.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-sa ... n-1511740/
Dreamchaser
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Hi there,

We have really set our hearts on Donabate as a place to live and raise our family. It’s such a lovely village! Planning to put an offer on a house in a few weeks and just came across this board. It does seem like an alarmingly high number of social houses in one estate in
a village that size. Can I ask if there is any update on this? Was therr a lot of local objections and more importantly did the council take it on board?
Thanks
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Ken
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Hi Dreamchaser,

These houses are in the early planning stage at the moment so there is nothing definite. We know there will be houses built there, but the exact type needs to be decided. Obviously discussion around a high percentage of social housing is concerning. History has thought us that estates such as that suggested simply don't work.

I moved to Donabate 20 years ago. One thing that I knew for certain at that time was that Donabate would see significnat development in the coming years. However, over those 20 years, the amount of development was relatively small if you compare us to Balbriggan, Rush or Lusk. This lack of development was due to infrastructure (the narrow railway bridge entering Donabate) and the economic downturn from 2007 onwards. Obviously we're over the downturn and development is starting again with numerous building sites now located around Donabate and several others at the planning stage.

You have probably also seen plans for a link road which will create a new entrance into Donabate bypassing the railway bridge (and also providing a bypass of Donabate village to Portrane). This has been in planning for 20+ years, but we're led to believe that construction has now started. This will also open large tracts of land for development which are currently inaccessible - one of them being this development in Ballymastone and there will be others.

There is significnat campaigning ongoing with local councillors, TDs and Fingal County Council to ensure there is responsible development on the peninsula. This is to ensure it's done at the right pace and we also get no more than our fair share of social housing.

On the flip side, the Government has put the local councils under intense pressure to deliver housing to address the crisis. Fingal are therefore feeling it from both sides.

It's all a matter of keeping the pressure on to ensure they get the balance right.
Regards,

Ken.
Mr. Stupid
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Dreamchaser wrote:Hi there,

We have really set our hearts on Donabate as a place to live and raise our family. It’s such a lovely village! Planning to put an offer on a house in a few weeks and just came across this board. It does seem like an alarmingly high number of social houses in one estate in
a village that size. Can I ask if there is any update on this? Was therr a lot of local objections and more importantly did the council take it on board?
Thanks
You can't really object in the way you would to a single planning application. But people power can be effective in other ways. There's a community group set up SPDD (Supporting Proper Development Donabate) which is not against development but just wants it done the right way. Another is if people who are considering buying keep bringing it up with estate agents, developers, use it to haggle over prices, threathen to pull out, pull out and eventually developers all of a sudden start finding it more difficult to sell houses.

Fingal have a track record of listening to developers more than anyone else and if developers can't sell their houses an alternative arrangement with more a reasonable balance will have to be achieved.
Dreamchaser
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Thanks for the responses guys. We still think it seems like a great place to live, and going by this board alone it seems there's a strong sense of community spirit that will rub off on new residents and hopefully influence everyone for the better. I'll find that group and support them and fingers crossed we'll be able to move there and become part of your village in 2018! (Sigh . . . just need the banks to stop d*cking us about and be consistent but that's a rant for another thread).
Cheers!
Galleryman
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Dreamchaser wrote:Thanks for the responses guys. We still think it seems like a great place to live, and going by this board alone it seems there's a strong sense of community spirit that will rub off on new residents and hopefully influence everyone for the better. I'll find that group and support them and fingers crossed we'll be able to move there and become part of your village in 2018! (Sigh . . . just need the banks to stop d*cking us about and be consistent but that's a rant for another thread).
Cheers!
Best of luck Dreamchaser, the Supporting Proper Development Donabate group have a Facebook page, and I was very impressed with their professional approach a few months ago in a packed public meeting in the Hall in the village. There's certainly challenges ahead for Donabate, just like all towns and areas in North Dublin, but your'e right in saying that there's a strong sense of community spirit here, and it's a lovely place to live
ellen123
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Hi, first time using this forum I am also thinking of buying in Donabate and have spoken to a few local people and asked about the area, nobody seemed to know much about the 1000 social houses being built or if anything was being planned to accommodate this number of people into the village ie new primary and secondary schools. Also people have spoken about anti social behaviour eg. vans being broken into and a pharmacy being set on fire (a bin was set alight and the building caught fire).

I'm just wondering if someone could put our minds at ease or if this is a constant occurrence in the area now and how will it be in the next 5 10 years with so many more people moving to the area?
alkaline
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After 18 years here I'm on the move. Donabate will be turned on its head the coming years.

There is a major lack of transparency in Donabate, The estates you can physically see from the roads are grand and welcomed.

There is significant building work going on behalf of FCC, that has no marketing around it, like Beresford or Glaslinn etc.

FCC are operating in Donabate well beyond their civic role.
aoifey
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ive said it before. Donabate is a great place to live. I wouldn't live anywhere else as it happens.
However, if I was buying a place now for the future, I wouldn't buy in Donabate. I believe it will become a town like the ones you hear a lot about on the news, in the next 10 to 15 years. The plan is to more than double the population with no real infrastructure.

Do your research before you buy here. People will tell you but sure that's progress, and the people living here 15 to 20 years ago would be saying the same as me. But already I feel the town is at creaking point in terms of infrastructure. We may get a small percentage of what is proposed in the LAP but it will be nowhere near what is required to sustain a town of 20,000+ people. We are going to become the size of Naas and Althlone in terms of population. Look at the vast vast difference in infrastructure there. Make of it what you will.
Dreamchaser
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Oh dear . . . bit sad to be reading these latest replies as we just closed on our house there and I'm excited about moving to Donabate! I know it sounds naive but I thought with the new road going ahead that the FCC would be working towards improving all other infrastructure and amenities? Are there any meetings planned to make them more accountable? I'd be happy to start getting involved. Have already joined the Donabate Facebook groups but haven't seen any updates?

It's a tough housing market right now and until the Irish get better at building up (Decent sized apartments in well maintained blocks where people can stay and raise families like so many other countries do) then a lot of other towns are facing this kind of development and surely every council is held responsible for doing this properly? Is it the lack of decent infrastructure that is the main concern for current residents? Or has there been an increase in anti social behaviour?
aoifey
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the anti-social behaviour isnt bad at all currently. i think we are probably on the lower scale of things. i feel that's because we have a really good community.

going forward though things could change. population of 20,000+ with no garda station. significant number of social housing beiung built, many of them on the one site. It's not PC to say this but figures show that antisocial behaviour is highest in areas with significant social housing. And we will be an area with significant social housing.

all of this is my opinion. right now Donabate is great. the future is anyones guess though. Do your research in detail is what i would advise
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