DonabatePortrane.net

So just wondering whats the general consensus with regards to the installation of the water meters. They've started here in beaverstown. Some of the residents came out to stop them, then the guards showed up. Im not sure how it ended

I'm not sure how it ended but I saw this facebook post which may be of interest. https://www.facebook.com/Dundrumsaysno/ ... 7135099236

If posts on that facebook are to be believed, there were two arrests in Beverton on Monday.

Maybe I have this wrong, but are the meters installed on a section of "public highway" or "public footpath"?
And,Is it not regulation that residents/businesses of said area, be notified of forthcoming public works unless deemed "emergency"?
The latter refers to a break in amenities.

If the meters are installed on what is deemed private land, driveways, is planning permission not sought/required?

Certain "housing estates" were purchased from the original land owners. was this lease or freehold?
UK/EU allows landowners to sell land for a fixed term to certain building contractors, for residential buildings and resell.
does this apply in Ireland?

If the residency, I refer to the Gallery as an example, were deemed as private residency, would Irish Water not have to seek planning permission to install water meters?
I suspect other gated complexes may/should be classed as the same.

If you pay a fee to a property management company, surely, it is them that Irish Water need to contact regarding water meter installation.

Please correct me if I am wrong

Jay

Letters went round a couple of weeks ago explaining that it would be starting soon.
As to your other questions, they are meaningless. There is always a way to circumvent the law if you create the law and I'm sure they've crossed all their Ts and dotted all their eyes. Otherwise the protesters wouldn't have to rely on being such horrible tw*ts to try and win this un-winnable battle.
I for one welcome our new meters, it's fun to take readings.

i dont understand what all the protesting is about really.
the campaign against water charges is urging people not to pay their bills. This is exactly what i am doing and I completely agree with it. I'm not necessarily against water charges but that's a whole other debate.

So I, and the others campaigning, will not be paying our bills. I couldnt care less if there is a meter there or not. I'm still not paying. So that's why I don't understand why people are insisting on protesting at the installation of the meters. Go ahead and put a meter there. I'm still not going to pay. Besides, I believe they are very very easy to disable if one was of that mindset.

The campaign is based around non-payment. So why bother protesting the installation if you arent going to pay anyway. Why don't people just park their cars over the meter when IW are in their estate?

I'm totally in favour of peaceful protesting. But non-peaceful protesting just harms a cause.

When they come to install my meter I'm going to make them tea and allow them to stand in out of the rain. Éirígí and the shinners can get wet and shelter under their social welfare cards.

digger....meter installation aside...as i said im happy to let them work away and install a meter....but are you ok with paying this tax?

are you ok with paying it twice? (the facts are there, yes we are paying on the double so that's not in dispute).

are you ok with paying twice as much as Spain for example when you are fully metred despite the fact that many parts of Spain desalinate sea water at a much higher cost than it costs us to process water?

or are you simply in favour of paying for water because Eirigi etc are against it? I've no time for those groups either by the way, but I don't let what they do cloud my judgement.

finally, your social welfare comment is a bit childish. many hundreds of thousands of people in this country were dumped on Social welfare for the first time in their lives due to the mismanagement of our economy. i know of loads of people, my colleagues includes who earn larbge salaries but who aren't paying their water charges.

Well according to google there are 46 million Spaniards (who knew!) which implies the cost of their water should be one tenth of ours so I think we're doing ok at just half. Plus Juan buys most of his drinking water at the supermercodo checkout and doesn't wash nearly as often as Paddy, and that's saying something!
I get the protests to be honest, there's feck all decent on TV in the afternoons apart from adverts about snow leopards and PPI and it beats walking round in your PJs and sifting through roaches in the bin for a hit. It must also contribute to their sense of wellness. Although it must be nice to have Christmas sorted eight months in advance of the day which most of them seem to with their keen eye for a bargain. But that's getting off the point.
Am I ok with paying it twice? I intend to pay for it MANY times, not just twice. In an age of paperless billing and logins and recorded voices that say 'IF YOU ARE A MASOCHIST, PLEASE PRESS THREE' it is reassuring to open an envelope and see a properly laid out demand for money.
Am I for the tax just to get back at Éirígí and their cohorts? While I will always try to stick the knife into dopes who rely on naked aggression in place of thoughtful discourse, this is not the reason. I think it is a precious resource that is not without value and yet will be cheaper than boiled sweets. People will pay 2 euro for a small bottle of magic water at the supermarket and 5 euro for a pint in Keelings. 10 euro for a car wash. Yet they are unwilling to pay TWO TENTHS OF ONE CENT FOR A WHOLE LITRE OF FRESH, SAFE TO DRINK, LIFE GIVING WATER FROM THEIR OWN TAP. (whew, CAPS are tiring).
Anyway we've been paying for it already through car tax, and belly button fuzz tax, and whatyamacallit tax for donkey's years. This is just an accountancy trick where it will now be showing up on the books for what it is, no more, no less.
I pay for everything else in my life, I have no problem paying for this, unlike some people who pay for nothing.
Do you remember the last time the water went out recently? How much of a pain in the hoop was that! That just illustrated how precious this resource is and how much we take it for granted.
Come installers of the meters, come now and install! I have the kettle on. The protesters can stand in the cold and shite.

If The government put up your property tax to €5000 per year would you pay that without questioning it? Or would you call people who question it dole scroungers?

If your motor tax was put up next October to €4000 would you question it?

Let's face it, any government at the first budget of a 5 yet term can do whatever they want.

If it wasn't for the protests (peaceful ones of course) you would be paying about 400 to 500 for water this year instead of the 160

I'm protesting by non payment because of the fact that we are paying for it already, I'm protesting because of the €80mn or so IW paid in consultancy fees. Working for one of the 'big 4' as I do, I know exactly what these fees are all about......I'm protesting at the fact that the real reason we are paying on the double for water is to pay bondholders. You see I'm the type of person that doesn't accept what a politician says. I question everything. Absolutely everything.

I'm in the not paying sector too but probably not in the majority in that I agree with water metering. However, the whole way that this was implemented was like something a two year old would have planned. A) if you want to get people to pay for something stop the leaks first, b) don't give a set charge until 2018(whoever came up with that idea should be sacked on the spot) c) don't give out contracts to people who are not in the business of installing meters - this should have been rolled out to plumbers rather than general ops who go on a short course d) conservation is the absolute key of water charges. Nothing has been done to conserve water in this country which is an absolute crime. Every public building should be gathering water in butts etc, private houses should be encouraged to conserve and gather water rather than have to get permission off Irish Water to own a water butt. This seriously is an absolute sham and to convert someone as green as myself who is 100% behind water conservation and charges to not pay says it all. All this combined with the absolute certainty that Irish Water will be sold off is definately a huge issue in the next GE.

Plumbers! They're worse than protesters!!
ihhhhhhh, could be a sock stuck there. Fifty yearo
ihhhhhhh, soft water, shoulda got the hard water, fifty yearo
ihhhhhhh

I am with digger on this.

When you think of real problems, the homelessness crisis, the rise of ISIS,..., wasting Gardai time for something that is democratic and legal is a complete joke.

FG said they were going to put in water charges, they are the largest party and guess what they are sticking to what they said they will do.

The burden of taxation can't all be on the PAYE worker. Water is a scare resource that you should be thankful you have. Imagine living in Syria right now?

The whole Gardai thing is a joke. At the best of times they've a horrible job but to add this on top of it is so short sighted to say the least. The big problem is how this appears to people installing meters when their not going to be used until 2018 when they only have a life span of max 15 years. Half a billion minimally to install them when we're going through hard times. Sure, some of us are doing okay and don't have problems paying our bills thank God but there are people struggling to pay mortgages, bills and food. Then again most of them didn't bother protesting so they can't complain in my books. As for PAYE workers we always end up paying for everything and I don't see that changing.

1stimer wrote:The whole Gardai thing is a joke. At the best of times they've a horrible job but to add this on top of it is so short sighted to say the least. The big problem is how this appears to people installing meters when their not going to be used until 2018 when they only have a life span of max 15 years. Half a billion minimally to install them when we're going through hard times. Sure, some of us are doing okay and don't have problems paying our bills thank God but there are people struggling to pay mortgages, bills and food. Then again most of them didn't bother protesting so they can't complain in my books. As for PAYE workers we always end up paying for everything and I don't see that changing.

Anyone who protests at those things and wastes up valuable Garda time has no right to complain about lack of policing anywhere.

Whatever the cost of Irish water it is way higher because of these protestors.

I'm a protestor in that I'm not going to pay my bills. I don't waste any Garda time.

The vast majority of people physically protesting also do so peacefully and don't waste Garda time. The problem is with the tiny minority who are hijacking the protests. These are the people then that you and others focus your points on. Not on the 99% of peaceful protesters for some reason.

A few years back pensioners protested about the medical card. By your reckoning they shouldn't have done so because they were protesting against something that was democratic. Well their protest worked. That's the whole point of protest. If our ancestors hadn't protested we would probably not be enjoying the freedoms we do today.

The pensioners weren't acting very nice. If some pensioner is on big bucks they don't need a medical card. Someone else does and they should get it.

By not paying, someone is going to have to chase you and that costs money. So overall all you are doing is costing everyone else more money.

If you have a problem with water charges, why not just vote for one of the lunatics on the hard left?

Mr. Stupid wrote: If you have a problem with water charges, why not just vote for one of the lunatics on the hard left?

oh but i did vote for a party that opposed Water charges in their 2011 election manefesto. Where did that get us eh? Were Labour the hard left?

Remember it was Labours way or Frankfurts way, right?

Thing is, I don't like liars. And just because some people say 'sure that's just politics' doesn't make the lies any different from the person conducting the 'microsoft windows' scam over the phone to vulnerable people.

there are many people who simply accept the status quo. they accept whatever a government throws at them. i'm glad to say i'm not one of those people. i will question what i disagree with. That doesnt mean i disagree with everything this givernment has done.

though take a look back at FG's election manefesto from 2011 and see exactly how much they have backtracked. This is what bothers me most.

Well then what's your problem?

You expressed yourself democratically voting for Labour. But, not enough people agree with you and voted for other parties. Labour ended up being the smaller party so obviously are going to have to compromise and not get all their policies enacted (that's not lieing, that's how democracy works).

Do you have a problem with democracy when you don't get your own way? That it?

Mr. Stupid wrote:Well then what's your problem?

You expressed yourself democratically voting for Labour. But, not enough people agree with you and voted for other parties. Labour ended up being the smaller party so obviously are going to have to compromise and not get all their policies enacted (that's not lieing, that's how democracy works).

Do you have a problem with democracy when you don't get your own way? That it?

do you deny me my right to protest?

do you deny the pensioners the right to protest the medical card, which they won?

do you honestly think that if a referendum on water charges entitled 'do you agree to w ater charges?' were to be held tomorrow, that it would pass?

i didn't vote FG, and yes many did. but it doesnt mean we have to accept ALL their decisions. By your reckoning then if they introduced a houshold charge of €10,000 tomorrow, everyone would just have to suck it up. Is that correct?

Whether you agree or not to having meters there is no excuse for the intimidation and violent behaviour I just witnessed on the Portrane Rd at the National School. A water Installation van with 3 folk inside being blocked by 4 protestors in the middle of the road, another protestor reefing the equipment out of the van. Long line of traffic blocked with kids going home from school. I'd like to know who these people are and where they come from. Wish I had my camera. When someone asked what the problem was the reply was screamed at them from the so called "protestors", something to do with the Water folk not having permits blah blah blah. These people do not represent me.

By my reckoning, if a political party are honest involve to tell you their policies especially the ones that aren't exactly great vote winners and that political party wins fairly and squarely in a democratic vote then fine, work away.

Now, FG didn't say before the election they were charging anyone 10K but if they did and people voted for it well then that's democracy.

Sorry you don't like democracy. How about when you lose out in other things? Do you accept that or do you moan about that it wasn't fair as well?

Sommie wrote:Whether you agree or not to having meters there is no excuse for the intimidation and violent behaviour I just witnessed on the Portrane Rd at the National School. A water Installation van with 3 folk inside being blocked by 4 protestors in the middle of the road, another protestor reefing the equipment out of the van. Long line of traffic blocked with kids going home from school. I'd like to know who these people are and where they come from. Wish I had my camera. When someone asked what the problem was the reply was screamed at them from the so called "protestors", something to do with the Water folk not having permits blah blah blah. These people do not represent me.

and they dont represent me either. i think you'll probably find that these people come in from outside the area to protest. This sort of protest, if what you are saying is true, should result in them being arrested.

Mr. Stupid wrote:By my reckoning, if a political party are honest involve to tell you their policies especially the ones that aren't exactly great vote winners and that political party wins fairly and squarely in a democratic vote then fine, work away.

Now, FG didn't say before the election they were charging anyone 10K but if they did and people voted for it well then that's democracy.

Sorry you don't like democracy. How about when you lose out in other things? Do you accept that or do you moan about that it wasn't fair as well?

i dont like democracy? are you deliberately distorting things to suit your argument?
democracy also allows for protesting. doesnt it? i, and 500,000 or so other households, choose to protest by not paying the bills in their current format.

FG don't need to say they are charging 10k. As you point out, it is their right as a democratically elected government to impose a 10k property tax. and presumably you would simply cough up and pay it because, well that's democracy. At what point would you refuse to pay a democratically introduced charge? Or would you simply pay whatever was introduced? You havent answered my question#

the whole system is a mess. The implementation of IW will have cost well in excess of €1bn by the time it's finished.

The implementation will cost much more thanks to all the waster protestors.

It is a democratic right to protest, but democracy fails when people don't respect the vote of elections. We just had a referendum for gay marriage, do you think the 734,000 people who voted No should go out and protest or just get on with it and accept that they lost?

FG told us this water charge was in their plans before the election. People knew that when they were voting and guess what you lost.

Talk about being a sore loser.

em, if you want to witness it yourself just walk down to the Portrane road now. They were at DAPSA about 15 mins ago. One Garda trying to direct traffic.