DonabatePortrane.net

Re: Case Reference Number PA 0037 : Planning and Development Acts 2000 to 2014. Direct application to An Bord Pleanála in respect of a Strategic Infrastructure Development. Section 37e planning application for the construction of a 170 bed National Forensic Mental Health Services Hospital on lands at St. Itas Hospital, Portrane, County Dublin, (and Additional Information).

Some of the general observations being discussed by the wider community - summary:

• The removal of over 900 trees from the St. Itas Hospital Grounds to facilitate this project is wholly inappropriate and the mitigation measures to protect the wildlife habitats (the likes of Bats, Birds, and Birds of prey – Owls, Endangered Red Kite’s, Amber Listed Kestrels and Sandwich Terns, which have been spotted on the Portrane Demesne), is wholly inadequate.

• There are no mitigation measures proposed to warn our children/teachers at our local schools and the wider community in the event of a catastrophic security failure (breech) at the proposed facility.
• The change to the existing East/West Public Right of Way across the St. Itas Hospital Grounds is unacceptable. It could hardly be argued that diverting this route, supplementing it with a route parallel to a service road for the local sewerage plant is of equal or better quality, (if the existing East/West Right of Way was properly maintained by the HSE in the past and today).
• The cutting down of a number of 250 year old oak (and other) trees along the current East/West Right of way is unacceptable. This is part of our heritage, what will we have left to show our children one day. The original Portrane house (dating back to 1730’s) that was erected round about the time these trees were planted has already been demolished in the 1950’s, by one of the HSE’s predecessors.

• The mitigation measures proposed for traffic travelling through our village are insufficient and the concept unacceptable, proposed traffic lights at the railway bridge is unacceptable. What mitigation measures are in place for school holidays when more people are using our narrow footpaths and roads?


• Can the HSE really argue that this is a state of the art facility, when referring to the orientation and overshadowing of some of the more important buildings in the proposed facility?

Medium Secure Unit (MSU) : 0% South facing Bedrooms and 53.33% North Facing Bedrooms out of 30 Bedrooms
Height Secure Unit (MSU) : 12.5% South facing Bedrooms and 40% North Facing Bedrooms out of 40 Bedrooms
These are arguably patients with the most severe mental illness that will be housed in this proposed facility and in need of the best possible care, contrary most of them will never see the sun shining through their bedroom windows. This is one aspect the HSE claims is very important to their recovery,

• We are a small rural community, with not to many local employment and educational opportunities for patients that might be housed in the proposed new facility and ultimately integrate into society. This is Contrary to the HSE’s “5 Pillars of Care Model” for patient care in a facility such as proposed, where “Pillar no. 3” state the patients need to be re-integrated into the community through work, educational and socially.
• With the termination of the Dublin Bus 33b Service by Dec 2016 (date this service would be put out for public tender) and the infrequent rail service (1st train from Dublin only arrives in Donabate at 07:31), are we really that well served by public transport to ensure patient integration into a wider community, and leaving them and their families isolated?
• Are we convinced that the HSE have explored all the options in redeveloping Dundrum appropriately, when one of their main claims are that of patient disruption in developing Dundrum. For Example: In the UK, the Broadmoor High Security Mental Hospital is being redeveloped to the tune of £253 million, with over 200 patients (Dundrum maximum capacity is 94 patients – Half of the existing Broadmoor Hospital Capacity!).

• With no Garda Station and inconsistent reports of Garda Response times, lack of public engagement and development of contingency planning with Gardaí and local representative bodies (example, in the event of a catastrophic security breech/failure), is this really an appropriate location for this facility taking in account what we have experienced in the past twelve months in terms of crime due to a lack of Garda presence?

Very valid points dfletcher, what about :

The GAA Clubs, they stand to be very compromised by the proposed submission, their grounds are all within 5 min walk from the proposed facility. As I understand it during the construction phase they will have to share the site access with all the construction vechiles (a one way system will be imposed aparently), we all know kids and trucks don't go! And then there is also the security aspect.

People going to mass at the church in the grounds of St. Itas Hospital; In the event of a security breech, will they have to stay there for 4hours or however long it will take the authorities to resolve the issue?

It seems to me this project will have a significant impact on our lives in this community, and we are being ask to make enormous sacrifices to the way we live in this beautiful part of the country.

Folks,

Can we keep all posts on this matter to this thread please.

This is not a high traffic forum, so no need to create multiple threads. Some duplicate posts have been removed, but original posts are on this thread.

Thanks!

i called to some of my neighbours over the weekend and it was amazing how many people still have no idea of the plans for St. Itas and how it will affect them both during construction and afterwards,

Banana wrote:i called to some of my neighbours over the weekend and it was amazing how many people still have no idea of the plans for St. Itas and how it will affect them both during construction and afterwards,

Good for you Banana, unless we speak to our neighbours about this it seems the word will not spread! I think that is exactly what dfletcher said back in November, 2014, hence his survey!
The word is still not out there!

Our local councillors , who are our elected voice, should be speaking about this on National TV, advertising this in the National newspapers (Irish Independent, Irish Times, etc..), and local newspapers distributed in Donabate and Portrane. I think this matter warrants this approach.

Our local representatives including the Donabate Portrane Community Council should possibly have large banners erected throughout our community, telling people about this!!

I heard from a guy that helped the Community Council dropping of copies of the flyer that went out last week for Saturday's workshop, that by Friday afternoon 8 of the Businesses that he dropped them of at and the local doctor and Church in the high street no-one knew of Saturday's workshop. We have to do better than that!!

Maybe we should ask father Joe to remind people at Sunday mass of the deadline for Monday afternoon 17:30 to make observations to An Bord Plaenala.

Feedback that I am getting from people is that it's just going to go ahead anyway. It seems there's not much faith in the planning process.

It's a shame because this is a community that successfully fought the sewage treatment plant.

My submission is ready and going in tomorrow morning.

hopefully theres enough of us that do care about the future of our peninsula, and try to make a difference,

Following on from a general feeling that there is a lack of public awareness in relation to the above planning application (and recent Additional Information) that has been submitted to An Bord Pleanála, I would urge you to make a contribution now for your community by completing the quick questionnaire below, and send this out to all your contacts, so that we can spread the word.

This proposed development will have a significant impact on our community during the construction phase and the ongoing logistics of running such a facility. There are a plethora of real concerns with regard to the wider public. Now is the time to voice your concerns!

By answering this questionnaire you should not construed that you have made an observation to An Bord Pleanála. This would still have to be done to: The Secretary, An Bord Pleanála, 64 Marlborough Street, Dublin 1, accompanied by your observation, €50, name and address, before Monday, 23/03/2015, 1730 hours.

Presented to you now is a questionnaire. The purpose of which is three fold:

1) to determine if the residents of Donabate/Portrane feel they were adequately consulted by the HSE with regard to application and additional information

2) to determine if the wider public's feel their concerns were addressed by the HSE's additional information provided

3) to determine the level of support for the proposed application

You mail also complete the questionnaire now via this link to:
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/LLKW3MS

and follow the instructions online.

If you have a FaceBook account, you can access it here:
https://www.facebook.com/NFMHPOLL


Kind regards,

Donabate/Portrane Resident: D. Fletcher

https://www.facebook.com/NFMHPOLL
nfmhpoll@gmail.com

Data Protection: The data will be held in hard and/or soft copies in a secure lockup until the duration of the planning application. The data is then destroyed. The data may be shared with An Bord Pleanála & HSE.

The best way to get people involved is to make it easy for them. If you stand outside SuperValue on Saturday and ask people to put their name to some generic objection, I bet you loads of people will sign.

The reality is too much hassle and people won't bother as there's lots of other problems that need attention.
Unfortunately and there is a cynical attitude to the entire planning process. The only way to stop things is to join up together. So an objection with 250 signatures is much more likely to do something than 11 people writing their own objections.

Can multiple people sign an objection then throw in 5 or 10 each?

Yes lots of people were putting in tenner each for group objection last saturday

Couldn't make it so didn't know. Is there any chance of organising something outside supervalu on Saturday as suggested? Might rack up some numbers that way. 50 is a stretch but would happily put in 10.

diggerbarnes wrote:Couldn't make it so didn't know. Is there any chance of organising something outside supervalu on Saturday as suggested? Might rack up some numbers that way. 50 is a stretch but would happily put in 10.

That sounds like a brilliant idea, and would also get people talking about it.
There's also Dfletcher's second questionare that went out, how about sending the link to neighbours, friends and family in our contacts list?

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/LLKW3MS

Spread the word!!

Here's the deal. People who care about this most are parents and people who have bought here.
However, everyone is super busy, bringing their kids to XYZ at the weekend, trying to fix the lawnmower, various domestic chores so people don't have much time. Make it easy for people. So if you are interested in objecting their are ready made objections people can sign outside supervalue and then make a donation.

I'm sorry but I am guessing the people who care most about this are the people who will be most affected. They can bring other people in if they make it easy for them. If there is something on in Supervalue tomorrow, I will drop by and sign and give a small donation but I don't have the time to write an objection from scratch, sorry but more important things to do.

I found it difficult to write the letter and also think 50 euros is a lot for people to pay.

So after struggling to finish the letter I re-wrote it again 10 times with mostly the same content but with different wording and layout. (I believe all submissions need to be individual unique letters, not one letter photocopied and submitted over and over by different individuals)?

Thought I could walk my estate and gather 10 groups to represent each letter and each group can share the cost of one letter of submission. I could collect the cash as I go and then nominate a willing candidate in each group, give the €50 cash him/her and they would be responsible for writing one of the letters in their own handwriting and submit with their own cheque in lieu of €50 cash received.

I could forward these letters onto any volunteer out there who would be happy to re-word them again 10 times and approach your neighbours in the same way. (Could be co-ordinated outside Supervalu too if better)

Make it easy and affordable for people.

It's a numbers game and this might be a way of quickly multiplying the letters if anyone else thinks this might work and could help out?

Finally if setting up outside Supervalu, a screen running the HGV footage going through the village would be a very effective way of getting peoples attention and interest. It certainly made me sit up and notice when I saw it.

Thanks

hi nanny,

thats a great idea maybe our local councillors could help with setting up a screen + table outside supervalu ????

henchy are you out there !!!!???

as mr stupid put it earlier is a crazy day when you've got kids, but this is our last weekend to make a difference and help keep our town safe for them , like every one else i'm running around delivering kids to parties , sports, swimming etc but i'll volunteer a couple of hours in the morning on a stand outside supervalu.

Mr Stupid, unless you are using your helicopter to get to and from Donabate you are affected by the current plans.

The HSE are repeatedly quoting that they have the broad support of the community in their document. This is based on the fact that they met with local groups. However local concerns were ignored for the most part.

I also accept your point that making things easy is the best option for most. It's great if there are people who can prioritise the time to sit in supervalu to make it easier and put some weight behind the objections.

I can give some time on Saturday afternoon while my youngest is at a birthday party.

If anyone is unsure as to why current plans should be rejected watch the you tube video on a previous post.

As someone else mentioned, why has this not wen made a national issue? After all the residents will be from all over the country. It's a prison after all.

This should be on the news, in the papers etc.

I'll contact some journalists I'm aquatinted with to see. I recommend as any people that see this do the same, even via Facebook or Twitter. Thejournal.ie should probably do a piece.

Not sure why this wasn't done beforehand. I'll admit I didn't think about it, but surely there are people currently being paid and elected to push this as much as possible on our behalf?

It's crazy to think the HSE can impact so many thousand peoples live and effectively not give a damn and get away with it.

It's also crazy to have to pay a large sum of money to voice an objection.

When, not if, the first accident occurs due to construction traffic, it will be too late to say I told you so. No one within the HSE will be accountable for it because that's just the way this country is set up to operate.

Our daily lives are going to be significantly disrupted by this, not to mention the potential increase in crime that the finished product may bring to the area with a prison, no Garda presence and little or no public transport to actually get to the prison.

Just lodged ours in person this morning - will go down to Supervalu tomorrow and sign/contribute. If anyone wants a copy of our submission pm me and I'll send it to you.

What I can't understand is why didn't they use Thornton Hall? A green field site sitting there and not in use? Makes no sense at all.

Hi All,
Everyone here on this Forum knows only too well the implications of this facility. It is important that we get the word out to as many people as possible. In my submission, I will be including the survey below to highlight the lack of public consultation and engagement by the HSE with our community, the fact that the HSE have not listened to out concerns, and, also to highlight the level of support from our community. It is really important that as many people as possible complete this survey. Please send this out to your email contacts by copying and pasting the link into the body of your email. It is, as mentioned earlier, of National interest after all!
I might get the chance to call in the morning.
SURVEY:
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/LLKW3MS
Regards,
D.

for the thornton hall site -they widened all the access roads, all the services , sewage etc......then abandoned it with change in government. from what i understand there was concerns about putting the mental hospital beside a prison.... but now the prison is not going ahead. so why not the hospital ??

could you imagine the HSE deciding to take 13 hectares of the grounds of malahide demense for the forensic mental hospital.........NO. Why ?? They wouldn't get away with it, everyone from Joe Duffy to Ryan Tubridy and the national media would be talking about nothing else.

yes 50 euro is a huge amount of money to object - the HSE know this , they're banking on people not being bothered to object so we need to change that

I've emailed todayfm, the journal and the Road safety authority.
More to follow

I contacted RTE (radio & TV), TV3, UTV Ireland, NewsTalk, Independent, Irish Times, Herald, North County Leader and others last week. No one responding. Guess it is either legal implications, it is too sensitive an issue, or maybe we are not making enough noise.

Any local journalists interested in running a story?

what about terry prone ? she lives in the tower in portrane ?