Hi all
I don't know if you are aware, but we recently started the roll out of community CCTV in Donabate village. The system developed by us at usee.ie records securely over the internet to secure servers in High Definition. In conjunction with this roll out in Donabate we launched a new website called http://www.selfwatch.ie , This website will allow its members a secure environment to share crime intelligence and to view incidents of crime that may be recorded by the CCTV system. We have already had a great response to the site, with numerous people registering for full membership from Donabate / Portane . Check it out
http://www.selfwatch.ie
regards
Usee.ie
Community Crime
Im all for this! .... but just wondering have you talked with a legal person or Gardai about the legality of having a website where you show - 'crime' and the 'alleged' criminals. In this country they are innocent until proven guilty, there are also massive disclosure issues? A lot of cases don't make it to court or get struck out. There are also a lot of variables in identifying someone, public opinion, for jury's etc.
I can see faces etc are blurred out, thats great, i'm referring more to the discussion and disclosure side of it.
Just wondering if this site facilitates viewing and discussion in which could be flipped around in a civil action from a criminal or injured party, may also jeopardize a Garda investigation and also may put people in danger, the more serious crimes get ugly. Just my thoughts.
I can see faces etc are blurred out, thats great, i'm referring more to the discussion and disclosure side of it.
Just wondering if this site facilitates viewing and discussion in which could be flipped around in a civil action from a criminal or injured party, may also jeopardize a Garda investigation and also may put people in danger, the more serious crimes get ugly. Just my thoughts.
I am one of the first to turn away when a camera is pointed in my face.
We live in a digital age where your picture can be captured almost anywhere.
But I know that camera's are on us at almost any time, especially with today's Satellite/Drone/Air Surveillance technology.
Because of that, I would not consider doing anything wrong.
Besides, I have morals and a conscience.
People have the right to protect their property.
And since we can't do it with Land Mines, Barb Wire, Machine Gun Sentries and Rabid Dogs, we have no option but to use CCTV camera's.
If we install CCTV camera's on our properties, and borders to our properties, these are to capture the actions of any unwanted persons for the means of prosecution.
Also for the security and safety of others.
If your image is captured on said camera's and you are of no wrong doing, then no problem.
A sign stating "You are entering an area covered by CCTV" should be disclaimer enough. If you don't like it, don't enter.
If you don't want to be hit by a car, don't cross the road in front of one.
If you don't want to be on CCTV, don't enter an area covered by CCTV.
We live in a digital age where your picture can be captured almost anywhere.
But I know that camera's are on us at almost any time, especially with today's Satellite/Drone/Air Surveillance technology.
Because of that, I would not consider doing anything wrong.
Besides, I have morals and a conscience.
People have the right to protect their property.
And since we can't do it with Land Mines, Barb Wire, Machine Gun Sentries and Rabid Dogs, we have no option but to use CCTV camera's.
If we install CCTV camera's on our properties, and borders to our properties, these are to capture the actions of any unwanted persons for the means of prosecution.
Also for the security and safety of others.
If your image is captured on said camera's and you are of no wrong doing, then no problem.
A sign stating "You are entering an area covered by CCTV" should be disclaimer enough. If you don't like it, don't enter.
If you don't want to be hit by a car, don't cross the road in front of one.
If you don't want to be on CCTV, don't enter an area covered by CCTV.
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Reinventingsecurity
- Posts: 12
- Joined: 31 Mar 2014, 19:23
Hi Gemma and JayFlame - thanks for the feedback.
A lot of work has gone into this project including talks with relevant authorities. We agree everyone is innocent until proven guilty. We don't believe in community vigilantism. Our mission is to provide the authorities with relevant information and let them do their job.
Cctv systems are first and foremost a deterrent. However, if a crime is reported, our cctv footage is of such a high quality the people involved will be recognisable and can be identified.
Usee.ie's cloud cctv cameras are basically highly reliable eye witnesses that cannot be bullied or intimidated.
Thanks,
Usee.ie
A lot of work has gone into this project including talks with relevant authorities. We agree everyone is innocent until proven guilty. We don't believe in community vigilantism. Our mission is to provide the authorities with relevant information and let them do their job.
Cctv systems are first and foremost a deterrent. However, if a crime is reported, our cctv footage is of such a high quality the people involved will be recognisable and can be identified.
Usee.ie's cloud cctv cameras are basically highly reliable eye witnesses that cannot be bullied or intimidated.
Thanks,
Usee.ie
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holdmycalls
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It would be illegal to make CCTV footage available to the general public. You haven't consulted enough authorities.
Surely there will be a public meeting before the cameras are turned on? And who are you? Who is the data controller? Why do I feel like all of this scaremongering is a local security company trying to generate business for itself?
Surely there will be a public meeting before the cameras are turned on? And who are you? Who is the data controller? Why do I feel like all of this scaremongering is a local security company trying to generate business for itself?
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Reinventingsecurity
- Posts: 12
- Joined: 31 Mar 2014, 19:23
Hi HoldMyCalls - thanks for your response.
We have no plans to make cctv footage available to the general public. And yes, we have consulted enough authorities.
A public meeting to discuss.... what? If you want to organise a meeting just tell us when and where and we'll be there. But we have been to meetings, have read the threads on this forum and the posts on facebook, have spoken to both businesses and residents in the village. We're tired of talking, to be honest. We feel it's time to do something, and cctv is what we do.
Usee.ie is a local security company that specialises in cloud based cctv systems. Log onto our website for more information - http://www.usee.ie. Or http://www.selfwatch.ie specifically in relation to the community cctv project.
The data controller is Usee Evidential Quality CCTV Limited trading as SelfWatch, and can be contacted in writing at 9a Redleaf Business Park, Donabate, County Dublin.
I don't know why you feel the way you do. We have not been scaremongering at all - there is crime in Donabate and it has gotten worse.
We own a business in Donabate, we live in Donabate, we are raising a family in this community. We are concerned about the crime in the area and feel everyone should do what they can to help their community. Our specialty area is high end commercial CCTV systems and we have supplied and installed a quality cctv system in the village - at our own expense. We're sorry if you feel this is a marketing ploy, we cannot be held responsible for cynicism. We just feel everyone should do what they can.
Thanks, Usee.ie
We have no plans to make cctv footage available to the general public. And yes, we have consulted enough authorities.
A public meeting to discuss.... what? If you want to organise a meeting just tell us when and where and we'll be there. But we have been to meetings, have read the threads on this forum and the posts on facebook, have spoken to both businesses and residents in the village. We're tired of talking, to be honest. We feel it's time to do something, and cctv is what we do.
Usee.ie is a local security company that specialises in cloud based cctv systems. Log onto our website for more information - http://www.usee.ie. Or http://www.selfwatch.ie specifically in relation to the community cctv project.
The data controller is Usee Evidential Quality CCTV Limited trading as SelfWatch, and can be contacted in writing at 9a Redleaf Business Park, Donabate, County Dublin.
I don't know why you feel the way you do. We have not been scaremongering at all - there is crime in Donabate and it has gotten worse.
We own a business in Donabate, we live in Donabate, we are raising a family in this community. We are concerned about the crime in the area and feel everyone should do what they can to help their community. Our specialty area is high end commercial CCTV systems and we have supplied and installed a quality cctv system in the village - at our own expense. We're sorry if you feel this is a marketing ploy, we cannot be held responsible for cynicism. We just feel everyone should do what they can.
Thanks, Usee.ie
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diggerbarnes
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Interesting. Where are the cameras placed?
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Reinventingsecurity
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Cheers Sydney! 
DiggerBarnes - there is one currently on test, covering part of the main street. A second camera will be installed in the new year - exact location to be confirmed. We'll be updating on www.selfwatch.ie in the New Year.
DiggerBarnes - there is one currently on test, covering part of the main street. A second camera will be installed in the new year - exact location to be confirmed. We'll be updating on www.selfwatch.ie in the New Year.
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diggerbarnes
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Thanks
I think its a great idea well done. Just wondering about the replys on here if anything happened to them or their families or property would they be worried about the illegality of CCTV in the village i doubt it, also I never realized there were so many solicitors in Donabate.
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Reinventingsecurity
- Posts: 12
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Thanks Scrachie!
Derek - the cctv recording system is cloud based and the retention period is thirty days.
Derek - the cctv recording system is cloud based and the retention period is thirty days.
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micropoodle
I think it's a great idea. We are on CCTV wherever we go these days. It's proven to significantly reduce crime.
I have nothing to hide as I don't carry out any illegal activities. I have no problem having a camera following me down Main Street Donabate. All I do is buy groceries! Wouldn't make for interesting viewing for anyone! If it makes it that bit safer for myself as my family then I'm 100% for it.
Once we are on a public place them I believe there aren't any restrictions to is being recorded. That's why on ye news and at football matches etc peoples faces aren't blurred out.keep up the good work
I have nothing to hide as I don't carry out any illegal activities. I have no problem having a camera following me down Main Street Donabate. All I do is buy groceries! Wouldn't make for interesting viewing for anyone! If it makes it that bit safer for myself as my family then I'm 100% for it.
Once we are on a public place them I believe there aren't any restrictions to is being recorded. That's why on ye news and at football matches etc peoples faces aren't blurred out.keep up the good work
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Reinventingsecurity
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- Joined: 31 Mar 2014, 19:23
Thanks Micropoodle for the support. Hopefully, the cameras will act as a deterrent and help reduce criminal / anti social activity in the area.
There are no restrictions in a public place - people can take out a camera and film anything... thats not the issue here.
Identifying someone from footage is great, and perhaps you think thats it done and dusted but thats only the tip of the iceberg, the start of a long road of bringing someone to court. Yes its a great deterrent but hundreds of incidents are reported regularly - get ready for lots of contact with the Gardai.
The thing i don't get is you say it 'won't be available to the pubic' but yet - somehow the public can register and sign in and family and friends can sit around and view it? Sorry but that WOULD seriously interfere with a Garda investigation and mess up chances of a prosecution. (If the media got a hold of images before a suspect was arrested etc - jeopardy) Thats why footage is seized by Gardai and only handed over on direction of a judge or as disclosure to a solicitors firm. Right?
Other issues
- If Gardai go to mr criminal and say you've been identified from cctv and it goes to court to be successful you understand that YOU, who hands over footage (not the cameras) will also have to attend court against criminal as a witness - yes?
- If there is a discussion forum along side viewing, especially if there is no prosecution - the phrase 'defamation of character' also springs to mind.
- You also understand that if there is any incident of an alleged crime - Gardai have a duty to seek out any CCTV footage, this will no doubt in the future involve many residents and business owners of the village, not just 'visiting criminals' anyone involved in an incident fight/assault, traffic incidents etc on the main street that is reported... these locals would be identified, approached by Gardai to give statements, summonsed to court as witnesses etc - i'm sure you've thought this through?
Once everything is on the high quality footage - life in the village will change
Dublin Bus obviously have CCTV the past few years and this is the story of their lives! A dedicated person who spends the day burning off CCTV footage and attends court for Gardai
Identifying someone from footage is great, and perhaps you think thats it done and dusted but thats only the tip of the iceberg, the start of a long road of bringing someone to court. Yes its a great deterrent but hundreds of incidents are reported regularly - get ready for lots of contact with the Gardai.
The thing i don't get is you say it 'won't be available to the pubic' but yet - somehow the public can register and sign in and family and friends can sit around and view it? Sorry but that WOULD seriously interfere with a Garda investigation and mess up chances of a prosecution. (If the media got a hold of images before a suspect was arrested etc - jeopardy) Thats why footage is seized by Gardai and only handed over on direction of a judge or as disclosure to a solicitors firm. Right?
Other issues
- If Gardai go to mr criminal and say you've been identified from cctv and it goes to court to be successful you understand that YOU, who hands over footage (not the cameras) will also have to attend court against criminal as a witness - yes?
- If there is a discussion forum along side viewing, especially if there is no prosecution - the phrase 'defamation of character' also springs to mind.
- You also understand that if there is any incident of an alleged crime - Gardai have a duty to seek out any CCTV footage, this will no doubt in the future involve many residents and business owners of the village, not just 'visiting criminals' anyone involved in an incident fight/assault, traffic incidents etc on the main street that is reported... these locals would be identified, approached by Gardai to give statements, summonsed to court as witnesses etc - i'm sure you've thought this through?
Once everything is on the high quality footage - life in the village will change
Dublin Bus obviously have CCTV the past few years and this is the story of their lives! A dedicated person who spends the day burning off CCTV footage and attends court for Gardai
Last edited by gemma on 28 Dec 2014, 23:11, edited 1 time in total.
What if you witnessed a crime on the main street? Say a bad assault happened right in front of you coming out of the grocery store?micropoodle wrote:...I have no problem having a camera following me down Main Street Donabate. All I do is buy groceries!
Would you be okay about being identified by locals/Gardai as a 'witness' to the incident. Having to attend the Garda Station, being asked to give a statement against a local person or a criminal and subsequently being summonsed to court to give evidence as a witness?
I know what you're saying and i'd be the same! This is just one example of many scenarios that could happen!
i know of areas that have cameras that monitor traffic etc. with online viewing but they aren't recording!
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micropoodle
Nope I've no problem with that.
Don't know how legal it is for it to be used to identify witnesses, only suspects however id still have no problem with that
Don't know how legal it is for it to be used to identify witnesses, only suspects however id still have no problem with that
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diggerbarnes
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Will there be signage up around the village saying that it is being monitored? How will would-be criminals be deterred if not?
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Reinventingsecurity
- Posts: 12
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Hi Gemma - cctv is our speciality area and we're all too aware of what's involved! 
DiggerBarnes - yes signage will be erected in the new year.
DiggerBarnes - yes signage will be erected in the new year.
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Wolf J Flywheel
- Posts: 34
- Joined: 25 Sep 2012, 16:57
I must say I like this idea. I don't understand why people would get upset by the presence of CCTV if they are doing nothing wrong.
I had a look at the website and I couldn't see what the cost is for private residents. Can you let me know where this is? If it's not too expensive I'd be happy to join.
I had a look at the website and I couldn't see what the cost is for private residents. Can you let me know where this is? If it's not too expensive I'd be happy to join.
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holdmycalls
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reinventingsecurity, you keep insisting you have "done the discussion" but you're not providing answers to repeated questions. Who is the data controller (by name) and who has access to the CCTV footage? Anonymous posts on an Internet forum are NOT public discussion. You could be posting under several names in fact. If you're going to start recording our daily activities and you live here, why will you not post your own names here, disclose your financial interests, and yes, turn up to a meeting? I don't mean to be cruel when I say that. I just think it is outlandish for a private company to be allowed to throw cameras up all over a village with no permission? And surely those who don't have access to this web forum, particularly elderly residents who use the church and the village daily, should be part of the discussion?
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micropoodle
Rather than posting anonymously on a forum yourself you should phone the company in question with your queries. If you think they are anonymous on here then no answer you receive on here will be sufficient for you. So you need to phone them or call into them.holdmycalls wrote:reinventingsecurity, you keep insisting you have "done the discussion" but you're not providing answers to repeated questions. Who is the data controller (by name) and who has access to the CCTV footage? Anonymous posts on an Internet forum are NOT public discussion. You could be posting under several names in fact. If you're going to start recording our daily activities and you live here, why will you not post your own names here, disclose your financial interests, and yes, turn up to a meeting? I don't mean to be cruel when I say that. I just think it is outlandish for a private company to be allowed to throw cameras up all over a village with no permission? And surely those who don't have access to this web forum, particularly elderly residents who use the church and the village daily, should be part of the discussion?
If you're not happy with the placing of cameras then report it to the authorities and let them decide whether you are right or wrong.
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holdmycalls
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If cameras go up on business premises, I will presume those business owners have given permission, as is their right. If cameras face private homes or areas where innocent children congregate (most of the village), yes I will indeed get Fingal Planning and the gardai involved. I firmly believe cameras will move anti social behaviour 200 yards into the estates along the back of the village (teenagers are not idiots) and statistically will do nothing to prevent crime itself. I am entitled to this view. I live here too.
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micropoodle
Of course you're entitled. I just don't agree with you. Show me the research that says it pushes crime back into estates.holdmycalls wrote:If cameras go up on business premises, I will presume those business owners have given permission, as is their right. If cameras face private homes or areas where innocent children congregate (most of the village), yes I will indeed get Fingal Planning and the gardai involved. I firmly believe cameras will move anti social behaviour 200 yards into the estates along the back of the village (teenagers are not idiots) and statistically will do nothing to prevent crime itself. I am entitled to this view. I live here too.
I meant it wen I said contact the authorities if you are concerned. But you also need to contact the company on question rather than ask them questions on here.