Donabate - NIMBY Capital of Ireland

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BateBoy
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I have my house in Donabate, I absolutely love it. I like the 'village feel' of the place, but I recognise that there are thousands of people who are stuck in apartments no longer suitable for their needs - maybe they have 2 kids now - and thousands of first time buyers that can't get a house or an apartment. Rents as a result are climbing and climbing, in turn that is impacting low wage workers, which in turn is leading to a shortage of workers in hospitality, construction, health care etc.

Meanwhile in Donabate, we have an organised, aggressive and unreasonable band of serial objectors who just object to absolutely everything - supermarkets, apartments, houses - the lot, they got their house and by God, they don't want anyone else getting one - especially if they are going to be "Social Houses" because if they allow them build them, the next day Donabate will turn into the Gaza strip and we will all be murdered walking home from the train.

It's usually the ones that bang on about 'property values' and 'trees' or cycle about with those stupid cargo bikes so everyone can see how eco friendly they are.

Anyway, hopefully we see some development that isn't blocked by judicial review and might give some other people the chance to enjoy what we all enjoy.
Mr. Stupid
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We will be very soon short on secondary school places, there's no way it can support 4 feeder schools and it is only a matter of time before kids won't have a secondary school place within walking / cycling distance.

Most people are giving out about the facilities not growing with the development size rather than development itself.
Last edited by Mr. Stupid on 06 Mar 2023, 09:13, edited 1 time in total.
Melissa
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Was there planning for a supermarket that got objected to? My main issue with overdevelopment of the peninsula is lack of amenities for such a large population. SuperValu needs competition.
blow-in
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Seems to have a fairly proportional number of moral granstanders also!
idaok
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"It's usually the ones that bang on about 'property values' and 'trees' or cycle about with those stupid cargo bikes so everyone can see how eco friendly they are."

This is a pretty judgemental stance you have.

Regarding objections, possibly some people are objecting to any development but also possibly some objections are more nuanced than you give credit for. It's quite possible people are trying to ensure there is enough 'village' to support families. No point in making the same mistakes developers have been allowed make for decades where they build houses and disregard everything else necessary for good living. The schools example is a good one and just have a look at all the childminders being sought after in this forum. If we bring in tons of families, great, but let's make sure everyone can live here happily. It's not development at all costs, that's just short-term thinking.
BateBoy
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Yes the supermarket on Turvey was objected to by a single serial objector, he wants DOnabate to stay exactly as it was when he was a lad obviously. He has written a 59 page document objecting to the development of the Supermarket on various grounds, in a long rambling, non-sensical diatribe about graves, stained glass windows, 4 pages about the the newspaper that the ad was put in being referred to by the wrong name, Fingal Bike Week (??) and in a demonstration of how little he knows, he has spectacularily misunderstood the levels on the application and spends another 4 pages complaining the building will be towering above everything - it won't. The scary thing is this, he objected in June 2022, the case was to be decided by An Bord Pleannala by the 10th October last year, it hasn't been updated and if you call them they 'estimate' a decision by June/July this year. At which point yerman will probably organise a judicial review.

The main point is this, one absolute head banger is able to hold up a multi million euro development for year by paying €20 to object and then a small fee to take it to the Bord - he could be doing it all for SuperValu for all we know? In the mean time, we continue to pay a serious premium on the prices in SV Donabate compared to SV in the Pavillions and investment and jobs in the area are blocked by one headcase.

If you want to take a look at the madness - have a read of it here:
https://documents.fingalcoco.ie/Northga ... 743080.pdf
BateBoy
Posts: 30
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To add to the above...

The planning process works like this, if you arent happy with a planning application you can object to the local Council during the 6 week period of the planning application process, you pay €20 and your objection or observation is taken into consideration. When the Council makes its decision, IF you have have made an observation or objection, you can then send the project forward to the Bord for review - it costs about €200.

This guy, once he saw that the Council had approved the Supermarket, took his objection forward to the Bord, but he also added in about 8 letters of support to his objection from his next door neighbour, the people in the next house down and a few others scatted throughout his estate, supposedly lending weight to his argument. They are almost all the same letter, cut and paste without a different name and address, some are clearly husband and wife in the same house to try and bump up the numbers.

The fact that this is completely outside the recognised process makes me think very carefully about who is really behind this objection? I am going to write the Bord and highlight this little bit of play acting in case they dont pick up on the dates on the letters.

Maybe we should see if we can get planning to get this guy kicked out of Donabate :lol:

You can see his mates letters - all dated in June below - the original planning was granted on 25th May, so all of these objections are great, but they are too late.
https://documents.fingalcoco.ie/Northga ... 743082.pdf
BateBoy
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idaok wrote: 06 Mar 2023, 12:44 "It's usually the ones that bang on about 'property values' and 'trees' or cycle about with those stupid cargo bikes so everyone can see how eco friendly they are."

This is a pretty judgemental stance you have.

Regarding objections, possibly some people are objecting to any development but also possibly some objections are more nuanced than you give credit for. It's quite possible people are trying to ensure there is enough 'village' to support families. No point in making the same mistakes developers have been allowed make for decades where they build houses and disregard everything else necessary for good living. The schools example is a good one and just have a look at all the childminders being sought after in this forum. If we bring in tons of families, great, but let's make sure everyone can live here happily. It's not development at all costs, that's just short-term thinking.
Yes I am judgemental, very judgemental about people who are against social housing, development and generally are snobbish and 'outraged' about everything.

For clarity, "Developers' are not responsible for building schools. The Council, charges hefty contributions for every single dwelling that gets approved, those contributions should be used to build schools. The problem is not the developer, it's the Council, they have the money, they just couldn't organise a p*ss in the Guiness Store House.

There is no 'nuance' to blocking the construction of 1100 homes in a housing crisis, the facilites should be in the Development Plan, the money for the schools comes from the contribuitons on the development, join the dots and you have enough houses and enough facilities - the villification of developers is what led to the housing crisis. Lets try to move on from that.
idaok
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Yes, the problem is the council. The solution is not to build more houses without the council building more facilities, like schools.

You're judging people based on appearances in my quote.
BateBoy
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idaok wrote: 06 Mar 2023, 14:15 Yes, the problem is the council. The solution is not to build more houses without the council building more facilities, like schools.

You're judging people based on appearances in my quote.
Not to be pedantic, but what I said was:

....It's usually the ones that bang on about 'property values' and 'trees' or cycle about with those stupid cargo bikes so everyone can see how eco friendly they are.....

The only reference to their appearance is their cargo bike, I think most people that load 5 kids a dog and a windsurfer into their cargo bike to go to the shop or to cycle about in newbridge, are doing so to show how Eco friendly they are, it's about appearances and not saving the planet. They are the same people who will tell you, in whispered tones, that they heard that some of X development or Y development is "social", the ones that told us we would be raped and murdered in our beds when the Gallery apartments were rented out as social - so far, not too many murders coming out of the new apartments in the Gallery.

Anyway, my sincere apologies for offending the cargo bike cooperative in the village, I hope they can forgive me.

Lets try to focus on the discussion at hand now....
kenny
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Joined: 02 Oct 2012, 16:51
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There is already planning permission for a super market in the vacant lot beside the train station. Why do we we need planning permission for another super market on Turvey? That road is already congested and in a terrible state. Why wouldn't the planners insist this new super market is out on the new road where all the houses will eventually be built.?
BateBoy
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Thats not the way it works, the zoning dictates what you can apply for, developers apply for whatever maximises the land value/meets demand - the planners only approve or deny the application.

Turvey is absolutely not congested, few queues in the morning at school time aside frrom that there is no one on it really
kenny
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Joined: 02 Oct 2012, 16:51
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Turvey is definitely not designed as a high volume road for a supermarket. Why would they approve two supermarkets on this road across the street from each other? Especially when there is a new high volume road ready made for this.
batman
Posts: 5
Joined: 30 Oct 2017, 21:09

I am not really sure why this discussion keeps coming up.
It has been explained many times why such large development is not suitable for Donabate.
There had been several public meetings (last one I think it was last December) about it.
Donabate (like many other small villages) has already largely contributed in helping with the house crisis during the last years without getting any kind of contribution in terms of infrastructures as it has also been explained in previous posts.
How is this new development is going to contribute or improve the village?
How is not going to be as it always have been in the past (still waiting for the four lanes distributor road to get connected to the M1)?
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