Large Scale Development - Activist Question

[Vlad the Impaler]

Quick question. Is there any group pushing back on the large ratio of social housing in the proposed new development.

The Local Area Plan (LAP) designated 20% as I recall? But the new plan -30% social, 20% affordable - is much more.
The rest is designated Private housing - but who would want to buy a new house in an area where 50% of your neighbours are subsidised?

I know SPDD are doing a very good job on the infrastructure requirements. Is the housing ratio part of their remit, or is another activist group required?

I'm from a working class background, so this is not snobbery on my part. We all know what happens in large scale social housing developments if we're honest.

[diggerbarnes]

Parties!

[Vlad the Impaler]

Well, going by a clan that was in a rental a few doors up from us last year, a few midweek parties is defo called for. Especially if the sun has been shining. Sure it's only a bit of craic.

[Austy]

The affordable housing I wouldn't mind so much, at least the residents in them will have invested some of their own money into them in the same vein as any other punter buying their own home outright.
The social side (while I have no problem in a sensible ratio) is just a box ticking exercise for Fingal CoCo. All residents in those proposed social houses are going to remain long term unemployed due to the fact that they have been dumped out in Donabate.

.....maybe, just maybe, once they are built, the social housing won't be filled, as in Ireland, beggars are allowed to be choosers and Donabate might not have enough going on!

[Donabate Hatter]

'All residents in those proposed social houses are going to remain long term unemployed due to the fact that they have been dumped out in Donabate'

That's one hell of a sweeping statement!!!!!!!

We lived in Donabate for ten years, initially on benefits, despite finding full time employment in Dublin, it was a struggle to meet the rent and reaching the top of the housing list, when offered social housing in a nearby village we took it. We would have loved to stay in Donabate but with almost no social housing it was not going to happen in the near future. Not everyone in social housing are feckless, lazy gits as suggested by this post!!!!

No Longer DonabateHatter

[Vlad the Impaler]

I'd rather not make this thread about the pros and cons of social housing Hatter. It's about a proper ratio of housing.

The Local Area Plan designated something like 20% to social and affordable housing - and for a good reason.

Social housing should be available in all areas - 20% across Swords, Malahide, Skerries etc. which should cater for each area's social needs.

Concentrating in one area is bad planning and an exercise in political expediency rather than what is best for the existing residents or indeed future residents.

[aoifey]

it's a concern that there are people living in Donabate that have no problem with this level of social housing. There are many people who wouldnt care if all 1200 of these were social housing so long as they get what they are 'entitled' to or what they 'deserve'.

these very same people don't think long term and will be the first to complain about no gardai when their area and the wider donabate area turns to chaos and anti social behaviour.

Firstly, before anything like this is built, we, as residents of this area need to secure ALL the infrastructure FIRST. Because, Ireland being Ireland, once the houses are built, we will get nothing. And that's a big fat nothing.

Then once this is in place (as is the norm in many European countries), go ahead and build what is needed. However as we can all predict, 30% social will become 90 to 100% social one way or another because no private buyer is going to go near a social housing estate with 1200 houses. We've all seen what happens when social housing is condensed into one area.

Here's a historical piece about Ballymun for example:

Some social problems occurred in the early years, as families which had grown up in dense city terraces close to Dublin's retail core, found themselves at the edge of the city, with few amenities beyond a travelling shop. Over time, Ballymun became notorious for a number of social problems, such as drug abuse and unemployment, and was impacted by negative media coverage of the area.

We all know what happened after that.
Bear in mind that Ballymun is about 2 to 3 miles from the city centre with all it's amenities and jobs. We don't even have a bus route to town, let alone any jobs for people.

This is simply a dumping ground exercise by politicians who really are only concerned about whether or not they will be re-elected. Do they really care about long term Ireland?

[Austy]

'All residents in those proposed social houses are going to remain long term unemployed due to the fact that they have been dumped out in Donabate'

That's one hell of a sweeping statement!!!!!!!

Apologies if it came off as a bit sweeping or offensive.
What I was getting at was that Fingal CoCo will just allocate 360 of the 1200 houses to social housing as a box ticking exercise - on paper they are meeting their targets etc. etc. In reality, there would be 360 social houses in Donabate, a village with no real prospect of employment for anyone looking for a job and very little in the way of amenities to entertain kids/teens and prevent anti-social behavior becoming rooted in the community. The lack of amenities is bad enough as it is without the population of another 1200 houses being added in, regardless if they are private/affordable/social houses.

Anyone looking to get employment will be looking at the likes of Swords (with a terrible bus service) or the city centre which will cost over €1,500 per year in travel costs on the train. What I'm getting at is that anyone wanting to get a job is already on the back foot by virtue of the fact they have been housed in Donabate.

Finally, I'm not saying anyone is a feckless, lazy git - far from it. What I am saying is that more thought and consideration should be put into this move by Fingal CoCo instead of history repeating itself when one considers the likes of Ballymun and other social housing disasters that weren't properly planned or thought out.

[Sleepy]

There's no chance there's a rare form of newt / bat / owl that could be "found" with a habitat in Ballymastone I suppose?

[Vlad the Impaler]

Indeed sleepy. It is mostly marshland in Ballymastone. I’m sure there are all sorts of interesting flowers, fauna and insects that need protecting.

It’s the reason some prime land near Booterstown has never been developed. As well as something or other in Raheny.

Definitely one to look at.

However, plan for the worst, hope for the best. Pressure needs to be applied on local reps and TDS. Alan Farrel for example is waaay too cocky. Doesn’t take much to lose your seat in the Dail. 50 votes can swing it.

[Ted]

As someone who is a ‘local’ of three generations I can’t help but agree with the general sentiment of this thread and certainly Aoifey. The quoted percentages put forward are predictably going to lead to social issues.
As much of a lefty as I am for anyone to feel that they deserve, or are entitled to a house in an area of there choosing galls me.
Incumbent Councilors /TDs and the prospective/potential candidates should be challenged on their views when they petition our votes. What other costal areas in Fingal are matching the densities proposed for donabate/Portrane.

[Vlad the Impaler]

Well, I see on the SPDD Facebook page that we got a first little victory today. A motion was passed that we would be consulted.

10 Councillors for, 5 against.

Remember the 5 against at the next election. Maybe fire them an email and say hi.
According to one of the comments, the 5 against were:

Cllr. Anne Devitt (former Fine Gael who was implicated in the Cargobridge planning scandal, resigned, now Independent). Personally, I'm not clear who votes for these sort of people.
Anne.Devitt@cllrs.fingal.ie

Cllr. Grainne (wailer) Maguire, Balbriggan Independent.
Grainne.Maguire@cllrs.fingal.ie

Cllr. Tony Murphy, Balbriggan Independent.
Tony.Murphy@cllrs.fingal.ie

Cllr. Brian Dennehy, Rush, Fianna Failure. (personally I prefer the actor)
Brian.Dennehy@cllrs.fingal.ie

Cllr. Eugene Coppinger, Swords, Socialist (it's ok to be a socialist Eugene, I don't understand economics either)
Eugene.Coppinger@cllrs.fingal.ie

[Banana]

vlad,,thanks for the info... its a great idea to drop them an email I'm typing it as we speak !

[Vlad the Impaler]

Yeah, a poster on SPDD Facebook helped with the names who voted against.

Perhaps check yourself. They take the vote around the 43rd minute.

https://fingalcoco.public-i.tv/core/por ... me/1485000

[dearg11]

Hi totally agree , we are the new dumping ground for Fingal FULL STOP.

I warned people over a year ago this is what was about be happen , but no the majority of people voted for every candidate possible that DIDN'T LIVE in the area , whether this was out of blind party allegiance or apathy I don't know but hear we are , maybe people might remember this the next time for example they voted for the bouncer off the door in Keeling's, who happens but live in Mullhuddart........why because he looks well in black, because he certainly wasn't here to represent our community.

Don't get me wrong , nothing personal about the guy, he's just an example of the lunacy of this town, people would want to get a grip and wake up.

Who are we voting for next, oh sorry it's a bit late , when we ignored our OWN LOCALS, who have to live with the consequences of their actions and voted for people who are residents of Balbriggan, Malahide, Swords.....oh did I mention Mullhuddart.

I've said before I don't care what party they're from , possibly with the exception of the looney left that want us all to look after the "I'm entitled" brigade at our expense.

Rant over

[Derek]

There appears to be some movement on this.

According to the SPDD Facebook page, they are claiming credit for a change in the proposed ownership mix. It appears that 60% of the development will now be private ownership, 20% affordable, and the remaining 20% social. The development will progress at the rate of 100 per year to allow infrastructural development proceed in tandem. The social element will be "pepper potted" [sic] throughout the development and will include provision for the elderly.

However, it appears that no provision has been made for the first school proposed for "Spires East" in the LAP, and consultation on the Ballymastone project is still being pursued. I'm taking from this that despite the councillors voting in favour as previously mentioned here, it still hasn't been granted / conceded by the council itself.

What are the views here on all of this?

[Vlad the Impaler]

A more sensible amount of social housing? 100 units per year to allow infrastructure ? Is this Ireland or have I been transferred to a parallel universe?

Very positive.

... although 30% affordable, 10% social would be optimal.

[Austy]

The development will progress at the rate of 100 per year to allow infrastructural development proceed in tandem.
What are the views here on all of this?

100 houses per year out of a total of 1,200 - 12 years!!! Add a property crash and recession in the middle of that and it will be a ghost estate for 5 years, with unpaved roads, homes that were 90% complete becoming drinking/drug dens and still no sign of any other schools, services etc.

Maybe I'm being overly negative, maybe it won't be a property crash and recession, it'll be a soft landing.

[Vlad the Impaler]

I disagree Austy. 100 units per year is a very sensible approach. No ghost estates in the Dublin region.

I still question the need for 20% social now that we are back to full employment in the economy. 10% should cover local people with desperate needs. I fully support affordable housing as there are hard working people earning much less than the banks will give a mortgage for.

Good work from the SPDD to get us to this point. Big turnaround.

[Austy]

Perhaps I was being a bit dramatic, but the Gallery was mothballed for the best part of 10 years, so anything is possible.

Anyway, yes I agree with you on the new mix being more appropriate for the village - even better is that the mix will be 'pepper-potted' as opposed to being clustered in larger groups. As for affordable housing, I'm fully behind you on that one, it is a sad state of affairs that people on an ordinary working wage have no hope of buying without a scheme like it.

As for the SPDD, amazing what can happen when people get together!

[Austy]

For anyone interested, the tender for Ballymastone has just gone up on the eTenders website.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publi ... lictenders

Estimated contract value - €220m

[RPB81]

Vlad - very interetsing that all 5 of those who voted against the residents of Donabate & Portrane having a say were from outside or representing outside...