Trouble in the Village

[davidp]

Hi Ken, to be honest I don't think anyone is making this a race issue, if anything I think these lads have a chip on their shoulder acting like they are in the hood blasting an aggressive "niggers on the warpath" song from their boom box that's what I heard as I was waiting to board the train. As for pussy footing around with times have changed, I can tell you in North America if you run from the cops they will shout a warning then open fire. Would it be so bad if our lads took the batons out when needed.. guarantee they would think twice about holding law abiding people to ransom

[estuarine]

Thanks to the previous poster for his contribution. The whole point - as you acknowledge Ken - is that I related what I saw and if the facts aren't convenient for some I'm not going to change them. Can we please get real here? If you have a problem, you have to deal with it in its entirety. Let's put it this way.

Imagine an underage hurling match between two neighbouring teams turned nasty and a couple of days later a group of lads clearly from the other town or club turned up to settle scores? Of course the Gardaí and local politicians would turn to the clubs involved and the parents of the kids on the teams to calm things down. You wouldn't ignore the obvious bond or connection between those involved due to misguided political correctness. Over in London, the Metropolitan Police have a major operation attempting to deal with violence among males in the Afro-Caribbean community because people are losing their lives. It is not racist to identify a problem that actually exists and call it by its name.

We have come up with labels in this country such as 'new Irish' but I can assure you that many young people of immigrant backgrounds define themselves according to their country of origin. We are not immune to the growing pains of diversity and community relations are not only about the soft focus stuff of intercultural festivals etc - they are also about ensuring people know what we expect of them. Of course most of the crime in Ireland is committed by white Irish people because we remain a pretty homogeneous society when you add up the numbers. But if you suddenly have groups of youths from other backgrounds running rampage, failing to get a grip on it will result in us ending up with genuine tensions. That's why it has to be faced up to and nipped in the bud.

[John Blowick]

John Blowick said 'PS Agree with the point that the local slugs .....the guys and gals YOU elect should be put under pressure.....big pressure .

I presume that you meant to say '....the guys and gals WE elect'? and call me old fashioned, but I find that being courteous to people rather than insulting them in a public forum generally tends to get a better response from them!!!!!!!

Ok Hatter maybe I was a bit over the top with my PS...I dont vote in Donabate which is why I said YOU rather than WE as I was referring to local politicians.I am a regular visitor to Donabate and it's environs.
Call me old fashioned as well my friend but this trouble has been across this site for weeks and not a peep out of the local representatives either here or in the wider Fingal Media...rather than advocating a vigilante approach as outlined in some posts The guards Irish rail and local representatives are there to sort this out.!

Interesting that you only commented on my rather rash comment on local reps(born out of frustration)and ignored the much more substantive point which formed the basis of my post.

Good man ....

[Defcom]

Hold up hold up. No body here is being racist can the PC crowd just park it please. Lets call it as it is. The youths that we are referring to are black, if they all wore red baseball caps wed say the youths with the red baseball caps or if they all went around on bikes wed say the gang on the bikes. They happen to be black. Simple

[acdublin]

If the only time skin colour is used to describe people is when they are black that is blatant racial discrimination. There's a group of teenagers who regularly cause hassle for security and staff at super valu. They are local and white. But no one ever describes them by their skin colour because it's utterly irrelevant. In the same way that it's irrelevant that some of troublemakers from outside are black. If describing just one set of troublemakers' race this way becomes acceptable on a genteel local forum like this, all of our black teenagers should rightly be getting anxious. Andy

[Mr. Stupid]

We need answers fast here and we need our politicians in to bat for us and to put our desire to live in peace ahead of any other factors - including niceties regarding the ethnic origin of those involved.

That's probably the most racist part of the post. You are insinuating one ethnic group wants peace and another doesn't and the only reason why is ethnic origin.

[Defcom]

i think people are just using descriptive language that's all, please don't turn this into a race issue because its not, lets focus on the problem at hand.

[acdublin]

Defcom, the original quote began like this: "We have to call this situation for what it is too." Anyone reading that has been lead to expect some special insight into 'this situation' is on its way. What is the special insight the OP offers? "We are talking here about a gang of black African youths." The implication is that the reader will be awakened by this insight: Ahh, that explains it, now that we know "black Africans" are involved we have called the situation for what it is. That's not description, it's racially-based insinuation. Let's not justify it by attacking the 'PC brigade'. Even if it were simply description, if we don't use racial signifiers to describe troublemakers from other ethnic groups we shouldn't use them for just one. That's treating one group differently from another which is by definition discrimination. You're right, as a community we should deal with these increasingly serious problems without getting distracted.

[Mr. Stupid]

i think people are just using descriptive language that's all, please don't turn this into a race issue because its not, lets focus on the problem at hand.

No-one has a problem with descriptive language but it is well beyond that.
Descriptive language:

4 Black young people

Unnecessary provocative racist bile:

There's always talk of the Nigerian 'community' etc. in a positive vein but clearly there needs to be a similar onus placed on them to control their young people and respect the country that has taken them in when this nonsense kicks off.

[Defcom]

Ok ill take it on board.

[John Blowick]

Hi Ken, to be honest I don't think anyone is making this a race issue, if anything I think these lads have a chip on their shoulder acting like they are in the hood blasting an aggressive "niggers on the warpath" song from their boom box that's what I heard as I was waiting to board the train. As for pussy footing around with times have changed, I can tell you in North America if you run from the cops they will shout a warning then open fire. Would it be so bad if our lads took the batons out when needed.. guarantee they would think twice about holding law abiding people to ransom

I'm sure you have seen the cops in other countrys >Continental Europe..Turkey etc..I was in a resort in Turkey some yrs ago and in the center of the town each night this big powerful police would parin the middle of the street surrounded by anout 2/3 police..big fit police in combats and baseball caps ..who looked as if they could comfortably deal the local or visiting scrotes might attempt.
Contrast that to our boys who I saw slouching around the Aviva last Saturday ..looked like country lads with their hands in their pockets and the caps pushed back on their heads..scrawny unfit pencil lickers most of them.
Wouldnt take the Turkish police long to sort out any scrotes causing trouble in Donner...and no PC messin !

[Paulo]

Contrast that to our boys who I saw slouching around the Aviva last Saturday ..looked like country lads with their hands in their pockets and the caps pushed back on their heads..scrawny unfit pencil lickers most of them.

Hahaha. Suppose they were wearing wellies covered in cows shite as well John!

In an earlier topic dealing with antisocial behaviour in the village, I suggested discreetly recording antisocial/intimidating behaviour on a smartphone and sharing it with the Gardai. At least then these "pencil lickers" would have the means to identify such youths.

I know the Gardai are getting a bad rap at the minute but I'm sure that the majority do the job to the best of their ability. It's part of our responsibility to help them out using methods such as this.

[patsman]

Im not a guard just being practical . Why should they send resources to donabate because a number of youths get on the train in balbriggan. 1. how do they know they are heading to Donabate 2. aggressive unsocial behaviour may be hard to define and how do they convict them.
Until something serious happens their hands are tied and then they can only take action on those individuals responsible. In the meantime if we see unsocial behaviour it should be reported to the Guardai but lets not cry wolf or they wont take any action in the future.

[John Blowick]

Im not a guard just being practical . Why should they send resources to donabate because a number of youths get on the train in balbriggan. 1. how do they know they are heading to Donabate 2. aggressive unsocial behaviour may be hard to define and how do they convict them.
Until something serious happens their hands are tied and then they can only take action on those individuals responsible. In the meantime if we see unsocial behaviour it should be reported to the Guardai but lets not cry wolf or they wont take any action in the future.

Hmmm ? They get on a train going South towards Dublin at Balbriggan ..they have previous in Donabate right ?? Now this is alledgely a large group chanting and "some carrying sticks".

Dozy John in Irish Rail Balbriggan rings Swords Gardai train is locked on arrival in Donner met by squad car in Station Group searchedand any weapons confiscated and scrotes arrested as necessary.
Names and addresses taken and other arms of the state check into their families welfare situation,car insurance..etc
If I could speak Turkish I would have loved to ask those tough Turkish cops mentioned in a previous post "how they would define anti-social behaviour" - some how i think that would not be too high on their priorities !!

If these lads just were wanting to visit the library in Donner then all is well !No great harm done !

[gandalf the grey]

People are just saying what they see, if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck + quacks like a duck..... Then it is s duck !!

[diggerbarnes]

A black duck?

[Mr.Blowin]

No silly, it's an IC3 Duck.

Not all people would be familier with IC descriptions though so perhaps Afro Carribean should be just as acceptable

IC1 White - North European
IC2 Mediterranean - South European
IC3 Afro-Caribbean
IC4 Asian (in the UK Asian refers to people from the Indian subcontinent like India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal)
IC5 Chinese, Japanese or other (South) East Asian
IC6 Arabic or North African
IC9 Unknown

[Ken]

I think it's time to lock this. Everyone has had their say and there certainly is food for thought.